The Narrow Path Ministries

I have noticed that several of the psalms that are refered to as messianic psalms had a different subject (David for example) intended initially then how the NT writers understood them and applied them to Christ.

for example Psalms 69 verses 4 and 9 appear to be spoken about in the NT in regards to Jesus Christ, yet the original reader, pre-Christ would have understood the subject to be about David. Now , after Christ's first coming and the writings of the NT we know that David was a "type" of Christ, as I have heard it spoken of. And that the NT writers directly applied those Psalms to Christ.

Psalm 69
:4 … “They have hated me without a cause” is quoted in John 15:25.
:9 … In John 2:17 we read, “And His disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of Thine house hath eaten me up”, this was after Jesus had cleansed the temple the first time. The second part of this verse, “The reproaches of them that reproached Thee are fallen upon me” is quoted in Romans 15:3 by Paul as he spoke of Christ’s obedience

Does the above Psalm speak about David or Jesus Christ? As I understand it, it is both. It has a multi-layered meaning. Am I understanding that correctly?

Doug

Would it be wrong to see the destruction of Jerusalem as a type or shadow of Christs second coming in the same way we understand the multi-layered truths in Psams 69? Matt 24 and Revelation for example both focus on the destruction of Jerusalem as a preterist would say, but how would we know if it has a multi-layered meaning? If it supposed to be how would we know? Or is it reading too much into it?

Doug

Does the above Psalm speak about David or Jesus Christ? As I understand it, it is both. It has a multi-layered meaning. Am I understanding that correctly?


Yes because it was Jesus who opened the NT writers understanding "that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures. Luke 24.44-45.

Would it be wrong to see the destruction of Jerusalem as a type or shadow of Christs second coming in the same way we understand the multi-layered truths in Psams 69? Matt 24 and Revelation for example both focus on the destruction




Possibly and IMO likely but it's not explicitly stated so it depends on your end times view.

Steve7150,

Thanks for your responses bro.... I was starting to wonder if anyone was actually reading.

I have to ask why would it be wrong to see examples of shadows and types in the old testament regarding Christs first coming, and the Kingdom of God, and then consider the possibility that something similar is done in the NT regarding Christs second coming? Are we told that this is not the case?

Doug

why would it be wrong to see examples of shadows and types in the old testament regarding Christs first coming, and the Kingdom of God, and then consider the possibility that something similar is done in the NT regarding Christs second coming? Are we told that this is not the case?


Sure it's not wrong to consider the possibility, do you have any examples?

Steve7150, the one example I already mentioned was the judgement upon Israel in AD70 and Christs second coming in judgement against the whole world. Just a few of the parallels that can be made off the top of my head are:

1. Christ coming in judgement against those who opposed Him both in AD 70 and the end of the world.
- God came in judgement many times against evil nations throughout history that we read about in the Bible, and He will come in ultimate judgement against all who oppose Him at the end of time.

2. Matt 24:11 Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. This is in context of AD 70, but I also believe it is true of the end of time as well

3. The gathering of the saints from the four corners of the world
- Matt 24:31 says something to that effect, and the preterist applies that to AD 70 from what I have read & I would apply it to Christ's second coming

4. The end of an age and the begining of a new age.
- The preterist says that the Jewish age ended in AD70, and most of us would agree that this present age will end upon Christs 2nd coming.

5. Matt 24:15 talks about a great tribulation which the preterist applies to AD70, and I would also say this would apply to just prior to Christs 2nd coming as well. (Rev 20 talks about satan being released for a short period of time just prior to the return of Christ which I believe will precipitate a great tribulation for the remaining saints)

Are any of the above examples of possible parallels between AD 70 as a shadow of Christs return at the end of time just plain wrong? Unbiblical? Because all I am looking for is the truth, and if someone can Biblically point out errors in my understanding, I thank you.

Are any of the above examples of possible parallels between AD 70 as a shadow of Christs return at the end of time just plain wrong? Unbiblical? Because all I am looking for is the truth, and if someone can Biblically point out errors in my understanding, I thank you



Many people believe these verses are end time verses but on the other hand in Luke 17 it says in talking of the last day "they were eating and drinking and marrying and then the flood came and so it will be when the Son of Man returns"
So it sounds like life is just going on as normal and suddenly Jesus returns unexpectedly. This sounds pretty specific does'nt it?

Great point Steve7150,

Almost everyone I talk to jumps to preconceived ideas of what a "great tribulation" would be. For I as well believe you are correct in pointing out Luke 17:26 and 27 and that at the time of Christs second coming the world will be continuing on as it always has been in terms of eating, drinking and marrying just like in the days of Noah. But does that mean that there cannot be a "great tribulation" in a spiritual sense that the world does not recognize? Just because the world will be carrying on in its normal daily routines, does not mean that satan and those who are his are not persecuting the saints of Christ at a level that the world has not yet seen. And the persecution may very well be so severe that there is a silencing of the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and His Gospel message is no longer being preached in the "institutional churches" as we know it today. And yet, the world will continue in its ways of eating, and drinking and giving in marriage..... unaware of the impending coming of Christ.

This is how we can have a "great tribulation" and yet at the same time the world is continuing on basicaly unaware. If you already have preconceived ideas of what a "great tribulation" must be, then it is hard to see it any other way I guess. Just like if you already have a preconceived idea of what the "binding of satan" must be in Rev. 20, it can be very hard to even see any other view, as I have found out talking to many Christian brothers regarding the fact that I think satan is currently bound and has been since the cross. No matter how many ways I try to explain the symbolic binding of satan and the going forth of the Gospel of Christ and His kingdom, they look around at what they see and say it cannot be.

To summarize, I believe that both a "great tribulation" will be falling on the saints of Christ AND the world will be continuing on as it has always been in terms of eating, drinking, buying, selling, giving in marriage, ect. Unaware of the impending judgement and utter destruction that will befall all who reject Christ.

Cannot both be happening at the same time?

many Christian brothers regarding the fact that I think satan is currently bound and has been since the cross. No matter how many ways I try to explain the symbolic binding of satan and the going forth of the Gospel of Christ and His kingdom, they look around at what they see and say it cannot be.



Hey Doug, I think Rev says that Satan is bound so he could not deceive the nations but he still deceive's individual people.
This tribulation may be short (45 days) perhaps taken from Dan 12 (1335 days - 1290 days) but this is just guesswork.
The nature of the tribulation i would guess has something to do with the deception of the nations since Satan was bound so as to not be able to deceive the nations.