How does "Baptism" save you? And what Baptism save

[Guest]

1Pe 3:21
There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

What is the "Baptism that now saves us"? Also, in Hebrews 6 in the list of "foundational" doctrines of Christ, the word baptism's is plural. So with this scriptural data, what can we deduce concerning baptism, both Holy Spirit and water.

Thanks.[/i]

[Guest]

1Pe 3:21
There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

What is the "Baptism that now saves us"? Also, in Hebrews 6 in the list of "foundational" doctrines of Christ, the word baptism's is plural. So with this scriptural data, what can we deduce concerning baptism, both Holy Spirit and water.

Thanks.[/i]

I believe the Baptism that now saves us is the Living Word of God. The Word of God was in existance then but not until Christ came and as John says: "The Word became flesh" was this salvation made known.

Nicodemus became our first example protraying the significance of this event.

John 3:2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Notice its born of the water and the Spirit. It seems we don't struggle so much with what or rather Who the Spirit is, but the water part has been disscussed and rediscussed by many. I think the Apostle Paul and Peter give us better clues concerning the water because it is tied in directly with the word.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

and

1 Peter 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever

[Guest]

Thanks Allyn.

But how would you understand the command to be baptized? What significance is it? Do you believe it is just a ritual type thing, or something else?

I see your point about the word being the baptizer, so does that mean that you view baptism as a symbol of something that has already taken place?

[Guest]

I hold the action of Baptism, and I mean emersion, very highly. I believe it to be the responsibility of the person to preach baptism as a part of the whole Gospel. It was never left out in all of the Gospel presentations example found in the NT and we should not dismiss it either. However, Baptism by emersion is only as practical as the availability of water and so the immediate act of being Baptized may be put off indefinitly under these certain conditions. Therefore it is not an action that saves but is a visible action from a hearts decision. It depicts the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We are linked to Christ in this way.

Again, Baptism is a personal decision but is a required action considering the availability of water. The Ethiopian asked, saying "here is water, what hinders me from being baptized?" It is obvious from this question that this man was shown the way of Baptism by Philip even though the text makes no statement concernin Baptism.

[Guest]

I hold the action of Baptism, and I mean emersion, very highly. I believe it to be the responsibility of the person to preach baptism as a part of the whole Gospel. It was never left out in all of the Gospel presentations example found in the NT and we should not dismiss it either. However, Baptism by emersion is only as practical as the availability of water and so the immediate act of being Baptized may be put off indefinitly under these certain conditions. Therefore it is not an action that saves but is a visible action from a hearts decision. It depicts the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We are linked to Christ in this way.

Again, Baptism is a personal decision but is a required action considering the availability of water. The Ethiopian asked, saying "here is water, what hinders me from being baptized?" It is obvious from this question that this man was shown the way of Baptism by Philip even though the text makes no statement concernin Baptism.

Great thoughts Allyn.

[Guest]

Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I tell you you, unless one is born [actually "generated"] of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5

In Christian antiquity, the phrase "generated of water" was understood as being a reference to baptism. Baptism was understood to be the seal of discipleship --- a bit like signing a contract. If you "put off indefinitely" the signing of a contract for a house, you are not going to get that house.

It was understood that at the moment of immersion, the baptizee was regenerated.

For example Witness Justin, who was martyred in 165 A.D. described baptism as follows:

I will now explain the manner in which we dedicate ourselves to God, being made new through Christ... All who are persuaded and believe as true the things taught and said by us, and who endeavour to live accordingly, are taught to pray and entreat God with fasting, for the forgiveness of their former sins, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were regenerated... For Jesus said, "except you are regenerated, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."

Let no one think that there is magic in the waters of baptism which brings about regeneration. Rather, what is being pictured outwardly, is actually occuring inwardly when a person is immersed in baptism. Outwardly, the person goes down into the water. Inwardly, he dies or "drowns" to his old self-life. Outwardly, he emerges from the water. Inwardly, he rises to a new life in Christ Jesus. What happens inwardly is the work of God.

It is my view that if a person refuses baptism on the grounds that it is unnecessary, he will not become regenerated. However, if he goes unbaptized because it is almost impossible to be baptized, his submission to Christ is sufficient. The repentant thief on the cross would have been baptized if it had been possible.

[Guest]

I agree with Paidion!

[Guest]

I agree with Paidion!

No offense taken, Homer but if you agree with Padion, who said it quite eloquently, then you must also agree with my hick style approach. In other words we, in essense, said the same thing.

[Guest]

Allyn,

Had to let Paidion, and everyone, know that I agree with him about something! Didn't mean to slight you; your post was good too!

[Guest]

Brothers

Here is a good link on ancient jewish baptism as understood and practiced even in Jesus' day. For your edification, enjoy!

http://www.haydid.org/ronimmer.htm

Blessings in Him,
Bob