1 Cor 15:24-28

[mgarrett]

1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 25 says that Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. What does this mean to those who believe "eternal torment" or "conditional immortality"? Christ's enemies will be "under His feet." Does this mean 'cast into hell forever?', does it mean 'vaporized?'

In verse 28 it says that, "all things will be made subject to Him." The "enemies" who are "under His feet" will be "made subject" to Christ.

Now here's the point I am wanting to make. The latter part of verse 28 says that, "the Son Himself will also be made subject to [God]." Since we know that Jesus will not annihilate Himself or subject Himself to eternal torment, we must conclude the "enemies" in verse 25 are in a similar position as Christ in the end, and that God is "all in all." All those who were once enemies will be reconciled and will be subject to God just as Christ will be subject to God, and God will be all in all.


Todd

[Guest]

Now here's the point I am wanting to make. The latter part of verse 28 says that, "the Son Himself will also be made subject to [God]." Since we know that Jesus will not annihilate Himself or subject Himself to eternal torment, we must conclude the "enemies" in verse 25 are in a similar position as Christ in the end, and that God is "all in all." All those who were once enemies will be reconciled and will be subject to God just as Christ will be subject to God, and God will be all in all.



Very intersting point Todd, Paul is contrasting everyone verses Christ yet in the end everyone seems to end up in the same place as Jesus.
"The Son himself will ALSO be made subject to God" , that word "also" sounds like it means "all."
And i still don't see the word "potentially" in there!

[Guest]

Todd,

What is the context upon which Paul's whole point turns? Pauls is first of all in ch 15, addressing his readers as 'brothers', not the enemies of Christ. Paul is teaching here the scope of the consumation of the Kingdom of God, which includes Christ's enemies being subjugated 'under his feet' as a 'footstool'. This is not a very flatering position or a word of hope for Christ's enemies. Paul is using imagery likening it to the brutality of Roman conquest.

[Guest]

Now here's the point I am wanting to make. The latter part of verse 28 says that, "the Son Himself will also be made subject to [God]." Since we know that Jesus will not annihilate Himself or subject Himself to eternal torment, we must conclude the "enemies" in verse 25 are in a similar position as Christ in the end, and that God is "all in all." All those who were once enemies will be reconciled and will be subject to God just as Christ will be subject to God, and God will be all in all.


Sorry Bob, this can not be much clearer in stating that ultimately everyone will be in the kingdom of God since God will be all in all. To emphasize the point, Paul even compares mankind to Christ in saying "the Son himself WILL ALSO be made subject to God." Therefore where Christ is , is where the rest of humanity will be at some point in time.

[Guest]

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul clarified to the Christians in the Corinthian church what the resurrection of believers will be like---over against certain opponents of his in Corinth who apparently had considerable influence inside the church there. They either denied a future resurrection will happen (for believers) or taught or thought it wouldn't be bodily (but a resurrection of just their spirits; an influence from gnosticism).

On Paul's opponents who the denied the resurrection.
1 Cor 15:12 (ESV)
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

On if it will be a resurrection of only the spirits of believers or of their real bodies.
1 Cor 15 (ESV)
35But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" 36You foolish person!

Paul then elaborates on how the resurrected bodies of believers will be real physical bodies; that though being physical, they will animated by the Holy Spirit as "spiritual bodies" (vs. 44, 46).

Neither the subject of 'universalism' nor the 'resurrection of unbelievers' were what Paul was addressing. He was clarifying that a. there will be a resurrection of believers when Christ returns and, then, b. described the 'nature' of their resurrected bodies.

As to unbelieving enemies of God, not much is said about them in this chapter other than they will be conquered and destroyed; a theme of Paul's that appears elsewhere (earlier) in this book and in his other writings.

Earlier examples and warnings from this book.
1 Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

No unrighteous person has participation in God's kingdom.
1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Further warnings about the destruction of the disobedient.
1 Cor 10:7 Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play." 8 We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer[1]. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. 12Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

[1]The ESV translators must have capitalized 'Destroyer' to indicate a destroying angel on assignment from God. NeXt Bible translation note: Grk “by the destroyer.” BDAG mentions the corresponding OT references and notes, "the one meant is the destroying angel as the one who carries out the divine sentence of punishment, or perhaps Satan."

Just some notes & thoughts,
Rick

[Guest]

I would like to point out a nuance I saw in Paul's argument regarding baptisim for the dead; " ...what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? I Cor 15:29

In this difficult passage to interpret, I don't think anyone here would argue with the idea that Paul was advocating "proxy baptisim". The Mormons practice this ofcourse for their dead friends and relatives who know not the Gospel. But, I think Paul is pointing out the "fuzzy" logic of these people who baptize for the dead and uses it as a platform and appeal to reinforce his position on the resurrection. The question Paul poses, "why are they baptized for the dead". The "nuance" is seen in their practice, purpose or reason for doing so. Are they trying to make an appeal to God like Catholics do in the Mass for the dead, that a person may be released from Purgatory, or like our CU friends, an appeal for "release" from the "purifying fires of Gehenna" ? No! I believe it was a "just in case" approach "if" there really was a future resurrection of the dead, 'I am going to jump in the water for my dead relative that he or she may be saved'... So my point is this, like Paul, the issue he raised makes absolutely no sense whatever if the belief in baptisim for the dead
wasn't intended for the salvation of a "lost dead relative'. If you are in Gehenna, even the CU's will admit a person is not "yet" saved..So why don't CU's practice baptisim for the dead? If not, do they at least pray for the dead? Do they pray for the salvation of their friends or relatives? If so, why? If not, why not?

Paul continues in his case for the "positive" nature of the resurrection for those "in Christ", not the wicked dead. (vs. 30-58. Once again, Paul is addressing "brothers" in Christ, and makes no reference to fate of the 'wicked dead' in the entire chapter. Paul closes with the encouragement that their labor is not in vain. The 'all ' are the all in Christ.

[mgarrett]

Paul ... makes no reference to fate of the 'wicked dead' in the entire chapter.

Some opponents of CU (or CR) take the position that the subject in 1 Cor 15 is only about the resurrection of the just and that the resurrection of the unjust is not discussed therein. Let's examine this a little closer.

1 Cor 15:20-22
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

In verse 22 is states, "For as in Adam all die," This must certainly be referring to all of mankind; likewise, "even so in Christ all shall be made alive." This statement is in the same verse and must be referring to the same "all" as the first part of the verse. All will be resurrected.

But Paul explains that there is an order to the resurrection.

1 Cor 15:23-24a
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end,...

The opponents of CU will say that the "order" discussed here only includes two.
1. Christ
2. The Elect

Logically speaking, if Paul's explanation only included these two, wouldn't that be obvious? Why would Paul need to mention that? No! It includes three.
1. Christ
2. The Elect
3. Mankind

"Then comes the end," says Paul. The third group (mankind) is raised at the end. Paul explains what must happen to that group before it happens.

1 Cor 15:25-26
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Once all his enemies are brought into subjection, death is destroyed and all of mankind is raised (the third group). Everyone who has died is raised; this is the meaning of the destruction of death. If someone were still dead, death would still exist and would not be destroyed.

Understanding this chapter in this way is perfectly consistent with the order of the resurrection as described in Rom 8:18-23 in which the "creation" must wait for the "sons of God" to be raised. Eventually all share in the same "glorious liberty" in the resurrection.

But let me be perfectly clear that the third group is not raised until they have undergone the "great tribulation" of God's wrath against the disobedient. They have not been saved from that - they must be brought through it, where every transgression and disobedience will receive its just reward.

Todd

[Guest]

Todd,

And then I will ask you, what is the "second death" all about?
What is the "second resurrection" about?

Rev.20:6 "[/b] Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. The SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER OVER THEM.

The second resurrection begins in vs 11-15 at the "White Throne Judgement". Not a pretty picture for those participating in this "second"
reurrection, which is being distinguished from the first. Paul is cleary speaking to those who will participate in the first resurrection in I Cor 15.

[mgarrett]

Todd,

And then I will ask you, what is the "second death" all about?
What is the "second resurrection" about?

Rev.20:6 "[/b] Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION. The SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER OVER THEM.

Bob,

My reply to these questions could be quite lengthy, but I will try to give a concise answer of my view on the "second death."

First let me say, if it is not obvious already, I don't believe the unjust will be resurrected until God's judgment/wrath is complete. This view is supported by my previous post about 1 Cor 15 and Rom 8:18-23.

Second, I believe that Revelation Chapters 20-22 speak of a present reality, not future events (idealist view).

Third, to understand the "second death" one must understand that there are two kinds of death discussed in scripture - one is physical, the other is spiritual. One who is overcome by sin and encumbered in its consequences is often described as "dead" (this is a spiritual condition). Spiritual death is the "second death." Here are a couple examples.

1 Tim 5:6
But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

1 Pet 4:6
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The New Testament speaks often about a "spiritual resurrection" when we are raised from 'spiritual' death and made 'alive' in Christ.

John 5:25
Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Col 2:13
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Eph 2:1
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Eph 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

The 'first resurrection' is being made alive in Christ. We who were dead in sin are raised with Christ.

Col 3:1-3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Those who have part in this 'first' resurrection (a spiritual one) are freed from the power of the Lake of Fire (spiritual death).

Todd

[Guest]

Todd,

I'm reposting part of my earlier post with slight amendments. What do you think? about:

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul clarified to the Christians in the Corinthian church what the resurrection of believers will be like---over against certain opponents of his in Corinth who apparently had considerable influence inside the church there. They either denied a future resurrection will happen (for believers) or taught or thought it wouldn't be bodily (but a resurrection of just their spirits; an influence from gnosticism).

On Paul's opponents who the denied the resurrection.
1 Cor 15:12 (ESV)
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

On if it will be a resurrection of only the spirits of believers or of their real bodies.
1 Cor 15 (ESV)
35But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" 36You foolish person!

Paul then elaborates on how the resurrected bodies of believers will be real physical bodies; that though being physical, they will animated by the Holy Spirit as "spiritual bodies" (vs. 44, 46).

Neither 'universalism' nor the 'resurrection of unbelievers' were what Paul was addressing. He was clarifying that a. there will be a resurrection of believers when Christ returns and, then, b. described the 'nature' of their future resurrected bodies.

As to the enemies of God (whether people or spiritual powers), not much is said about them in this chapter other than they will be conquered and destroyed; a theme of Paul's that appears elsewhere (earlier) in this book and in his other writings.

Rick