What is the meaning of being completely transformed into the image of Satan? It means that they are just like Satan who will never repent.
Do you believe that God is just for providing eternal punishment for Satan and his gangs? Why?
So, if you believe that God is just for providing eternal punishment for Satan and his gangs why it is difficult for you to accept that a human who was completely transformed into the image of Satan can be punished eternally.
Do you think God will throw people into the lake of fire even if there is a slight chance that they will repent. I don't think so. But I believe that God will throw people in the lake of fire because they have been completely transformed into the image of Satan.
Do you think Satan will repent if given a chance? I don't think so.
Do you think those who will be condemned and thrown into the lake of fire
because they did not follow Jesus will repent if given a chance? Probably they will repent temporarily so that they can escape the pain of suffering but after they repent they might come back again in their old ways and the worst is that what happened during the time of Lucifer, the time he rebelled against God while he was an angel can happen again and worst is that they might infect other saints just like Satan did.
Transformed into the image of Satan
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_PAULESPINO
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Transformed into the image of Satan
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Does the bible ever mention being "transformed into the image of Satan"?What is the meaning of being completely transformed into the image of Satan?
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Derek
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
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_PAULESPINO
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Hi,
No, the Bible never mentioned being transformed into the image of Satan.
I'm making a philosophical statement.
Christians are suppose to be transformed into the image of Christ. If people will not be transformed into the image of Christ how are they being transformed then obviously the opposite of being conformed into the image of Christ. I believe there are similiraties between Satan and those people who continue to rebel against God and one of these is Pride .
No, the Bible never mentioned being transformed into the image of Satan.
I'm making a philosophical statement.
Christians are suppose to be transformed into the image of Christ. If people will not be transformed into the image of Christ how are they being transformed then obviously the opposite of being conformed into the image of Christ. I believe there are similiraties between Satan and those people who continue to rebel against God and one of these is Pride .
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_PAULESPINO
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The bible never mentioned directly that we are being transformed into the image of Satan but points out that those who are not in Christ are actually living among the friends of the air (satan).
You see those who are not in Christ follows the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air (satan). If those who are not Christians keep on following the ways of Satan it will eventually transform them into his image (figure of speech).Ephesians 2:1-3 NIV
" As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath."
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Paul you wrote:
Paul, you also quoted Ephesians 2 concerning those who follow the ruler of the kingdom of the air.
If we continue reading in Ephesians, and get into chapter 3, we read an astounding statement:
To me, the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the incomprehensible riches of Christ, and to give light as to the administration of the secret hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the purpose of the ages which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord... Ephesians 3:8-11
The "purpose of the ages" was the reconciliation of all rational beings to God through Jesus the Messiah. At the time of Paul's writing, this reconciliation process had already begun, through the proclamation to the Gentiles, of the good news concerning submission to Christ's authority in His Kingdom. Through the church, the good news can now be made known to "the principalities and powers in the heavenly places", that is, what you call "the friends of the air". Why make this known to these powers, if they will never repent?
The members of the Church at present, are not yet complete in Christ. The process of salvation from sin, and total conformity to the image of Christ, is not yet complete. So we don't know how to go about making known the manifold wisdom of God to Satan and his demonic agents.
But after the overcomers come forth as mature Sons and Daughters of God in the resurrection, they will have been equipped to do so. It is my guess, that they will also bring the permanent gospel (or "everlasting" gospel, if you prefer) the those who will be corrected in Gehenna, after having been sent there following the second resurrection at the end of the millenium.
Pain alone, does not seem to lead people to repentance, (at least not in our experience), but the message that the pain is a consequence of their evil characters in action, and the message of the need for submission to Christ, may do so.
Origen (185-255 A.D.) considered Satan to be the personification of death. He wrote the following concerning his reconciliation:
When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God, but from himself. Therefore hiis destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be and enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to Omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker...
Origen also wrote about the purging fires of Gehenna:
... God acts in dealing with sinners as a physician... the fury of His anger is profitable for the purging of souls. Even that penalty which is said to be imposed by way of fire is understood as applied to assist a sinner to health.
Here is what Origen wrote about the regarding the reconciliation:
The restoration to unity must not be imagined as a sudden happening. Rather, it is to be thought of as gradually effected by stages during the passing of countless ages. Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet others will be far behind. Thus multitude of individuals and countless orders will advance and reconcile themselves to God, who once were enemies; and so at length the last enemy will be reached...
Colossians 1:19, 20 speaks of all things being reconciled to God through Christ. Why should Satan and "the friends of the air" which you mentioned, be excluded?Do you think Satan will repent if given a chance? I don't think so
Paul, you also quoted Ephesians 2 concerning those who follow the ruler of the kingdom of the air.
If we continue reading in Ephesians, and get into chapter 3, we read an astounding statement:
To me, the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the incomprehensible riches of Christ, and to give light as to the administration of the secret hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the purpose of the ages which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord... Ephesians 3:8-11
The "purpose of the ages" was the reconciliation of all rational beings to God through Jesus the Messiah. At the time of Paul's writing, this reconciliation process had already begun, through the proclamation to the Gentiles, of the good news concerning submission to Christ's authority in His Kingdom. Through the church, the good news can now be made known to "the principalities and powers in the heavenly places", that is, what you call "the friends of the air". Why make this known to these powers, if they will never repent?
The members of the Church at present, are not yet complete in Christ. The process of salvation from sin, and total conformity to the image of Christ, is not yet complete. So we don't know how to go about making known the manifold wisdom of God to Satan and his demonic agents.
But after the overcomers come forth as mature Sons and Daughters of God in the resurrection, they will have been equipped to do so. It is my guess, that they will also bring the permanent gospel (or "everlasting" gospel, if you prefer) the those who will be corrected in Gehenna, after having been sent there following the second resurrection at the end of the millenium.
Pain alone, does not seem to lead people to repentance, (at least not in our experience), but the message that the pain is a consequence of their evil characters in action, and the message of the need for submission to Christ, may do so.
Origen (185-255 A.D.) considered Satan to be the personification of death. He wrote the following concerning his reconciliation:
When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God, but from himself. Therefore hiis destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be and enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to Omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker...
Origen also wrote about the purging fires of Gehenna:
... God acts in dealing with sinners as a physician... the fury of His anger is profitable for the purging of souls. Even that penalty which is said to be imposed by way of fire is understood as applied to assist a sinner to health.
Here is what Origen wrote about the regarding the reconciliation:
The restoration to unity must not be imagined as a sudden happening. Rather, it is to be thought of as gradually effected by stages during the passing of countless ages. Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet others will be far behind. Thus multitude of individuals and countless orders will advance and reconcile themselves to God, who once were enemies; and so at length the last enemy will be reached...
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Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
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_Father_of_five
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Paidion,Paidion wrote:Origen (185-255 A.D.) considered Satan to be the personification of death. He wrote the following concerning his reconciliation:
When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God, but from himself. Therefore hiis destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be and enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to Omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker...
Origen also wrote about the purging fires of Gehenna:
... God acts in dealing with sinners as a physician... the fury of His anger is profitable for the purging of souls. Even that penalty which is said to be imposed by way of fire is understood as applied to assist a sinner to health.
Here is what Origen wrote about the regarding the reconciliation:
The restoration to unity must not be imagined as a sudden happening. Rather, it is to be thought of as gradually effected by stages during the passing of countless ages. Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet others will be far behind. Thus multitude of individuals and countless orders will advance and reconcile themselves to God, who once were enemies; and so at length the last enemy will be reached...
So, when it says, "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (1 Cor 15:26), you take this to mean that Satan is no longer an enemy of God?...and that prior to that point all of mankind will have gradually reconciled themselves to God? Interesting. I suppose that this is consistent with the Christian Universalist View. I had always taken v.26 to be referring to the resurrection; that is, that when death is destroyed noone is dead any longer - the grave gives up all of mankind forever.
Todd
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_PAULESPINO
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Hey Brother,
Brother Paidion long time no see. I'm glad to see you here. I hope you have fully recovered from the surgery.
Hmmm!!!! Allow me to ponder with your given statements and I might be able to come up with a response. 
Brother Paidion long time no see. I'm glad to see you here. I hope you have fully recovered from the surgery.
Hmmm!!!! Allow me to ponder with your given statements and I might be able to come up with a response.
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_brody_in_ga
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Paidion,
Are you saying that Satan will one day be a Christian? If so, please do explain. Because I am very interested in hearing how this can be so in light of certain passages.
Are you saying that Satan will one day be a Christian? If so, please do explain. Because I am very interested in hearing how this can be so in light of certain passages.
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For our God is a consuming fire.
Hebrews 12:29
Hebrews 12:29
Paidion,
Also in verse 23 Pauls says the gospel "was preached to every creature under heaven". What reason do you have for taking the "all things" of verse 20 in a particular sense, rather than a general sense, where the "every creature" of verse 23 must be taken in a general sense? Paul obviously did not mean the gospel had been preached to every particular person.
You insist that all mankind will be judged by their works and you deny imputed righteousness. I believe we both agree that "without holiness, no one will see God". Again I ask you how those in hell (gehenna if you prefer) will be made holy? You have never answered this. Absent imputed righteousness, what work will they do to become holy, in that place "...when no man can work", John 9:4.
Also all the quotes from Origen prove nothing.
Is not the reconciliation spoken of in the passage you quoted conditional? Reading further, verse 21 informs us of the reconciliation of those in Christ, then verse 23, regarding that reconciliation, states if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard...". Sounds like the reconciliation can be forfeited to me.Colossians 1:19, 20 speaks of all things being reconciled to God through Christ. Why should Satan and "the friends of the air" which you mentioned, be excluded?
Also in verse 23 Pauls says the gospel "was preached to every creature under heaven". What reason do you have for taking the "all things" of verse 20 in a particular sense, rather than a general sense, where the "every creature" of verse 23 must be taken in a general sense? Paul obviously did not mean the gospel had been preached to every particular person.
You insist that all mankind will be judged by their works and you deny imputed righteousness. I believe we both agree that "without holiness, no one will see God". Again I ask you how those in hell (gehenna if you prefer) will be made holy? You have never answered this. Absent imputed righteousness, what work will they do to become holy, in that place "...when no man can work", John 9:4.
Also all the quotes from Origen prove nothing.
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A Berean
Yes, for 2 parties to reconcile requires both to agree to the reconciliation. The terms of the reconciliation in this case is faithfulness. My understanding of the universalist position is that "in the fulness of time" (cf: Eph. 1:10ff) all will have been gathered into Christ (having met the terms of the reconciliation).Is not the reconciliation spoken of in the passage you quoted conditional?
Why does it have to be different in gehenna than it is now? Is it not possible for one to see the error of his/her ways and repent, turn to God in faith, and be healed after death? Is what happens after death so clear to you that you can declare this an impossibility?Again I ask you how those in hell (gehenna if you prefer) will be made holy?
I can say from my own experience that it was when I suffered the consequences of my actions (my own personal "gehenna" - albeit in this life), that I realized I was making a mess of my life and decided to trust that God knew a better way. I see no reason to believe that a person could not come to the same conclusion in an "after this life" gehenna. I also believe that God is wise enough to know when a person's repentance is genuine.
Sorry for my intrusion into the conversation
Mike
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