The Law written on our hearts

[Guest]

I was listening to a Christian radio station today and heard it said that "the Law of God is written on everyone's heart." This is something that I believe also, but wanted to raise the question here to get other thoughts. Here are a few scriptures which I believe support this idea.

This was promised with the coming of the new Covenant.
Jer 31:33-34
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

The Gentiles had the Law written on their hearts "by nature."
Rom 2:14-15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

"Every man" is enlightened.
John 1:8-9
8 He himself [John] was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

Christ's Spirit was poured out on ALL flesh.
Acts 2:16-17
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

Todd

[Guest]

C.S Lewis spent several of the early chapters of "mere christianity" exploring this concept-- which he called "the law of human nature." essentially, he made the case that men know what they "ought" to do even though they don't always do it. in other words, they have a conscience. this evidence of conscience, Lewis argued, is evidence of a Being "above" humans.

its along the same lines of God writing the law on men's hearts.

TK

[_Sean]

I was listening to a Christian radio station today and heard it said that "the Law of God is written on everyone's heart." This is something that I believe also, but wanted to raise the question here to get other thoughts. Here are a few scriptures which I believe support this idea.

This was promised with the coming of the new Covenant.
Jer 31:33-34
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

The Gentiles had the Law written on their hearts "by nature."
Rom 2:14-15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

Why is it in Jeremiah that a point is made that in the new covenant the law will be written on mens hearts if it were already so?

Unless you are saying that since the new covenant all people have this, even the lost?

As far as Romans 2:15 goes, is it the case that Gentiles had a pre-Christian history of doing by nature the requirements of God's law?

I believe Romans 2:15 is Paul making the point that (since Christ has come) there are Gentiles who have had the promise made in Jeremiah 31 come to pass in thier lives. Paul states the proof as being their changed hearts manifested in keeping God's law of love even though they lack the mozaic law to tell them this. This would be by "nature" because they are now regenerated. Paul also makes this point in 1 Thes 4:9.

I think there is something in man called an conscience and seems to be mentioned in Genesis as man knowing good and evil. However, I think this is different than the law being written on the heart, which seems to be something the occurs at regeneration. Hence the quote from Acts.

[Guest]

Why is it in Jeremiah that a point is made that in the new covenant the law will be written on mens hearts if it were already so?

Unless you are saying that since the new covenant all people have this, even the lost?

Sean,

Yes, I am saying that when the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh on the Day of Pentecost that all people - saved and unsaved - have the law written on their hearts. When Jeremiah said "for they all shall know me from the least to the greatest," I think that includes everyone. How can the Holy Spirit convict someone of sin (John 16:8 ) if the law isn't already written on the heart?

Todd

[Guest]

Yes, I am saying that when the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh on the Day of Pentecost that all people - saved and unsaved - have the law written on their hearts. When Jeremiah said "for they all shall know me from the least to the greatest," I think that includes everyone. How can the Holy Spirit convict someone of sin (John 16:8 ) if the law isn't already written on the heart?

Todd, Don't you think that the "all" on the day of Pentecost is either hyperbole since the number was about 3,000 or the beginning of a long process perhaps taking ages?

[Guest]

Todd, Don't you think that the "all" on the day of Pentecost is either hyperbole since the number was about 3,000 or the beginning of a long process perhaps taking ages?

Steve7150,

This is the real issue here. Is the Law written only on the hearts of Christians or has it been written on the hearts of everyone? I believe that there was a fundamental difference in the way the Lord deals with mankind that was initiated on the Day of Pentecost. His Spirit was poured out upon all of mankind. Now everyone "knows" the Lord (has the Law written on their hearts). This is how the Gentiles were able to obey the law "by nature" (Rom 2:14-15). This is what John was saying when he said that Christ enlightens "every man" (John 1:9). This is how the Holy Spirit can convict the world of sin (John 16:8 ) because everyone knows what he ought to do.

Todd

[_Sean]

Why is it in Jeremiah that a point is made that in the new covenant the law will be written on mens hearts if it were already so?

Unless you are saying that since the new covenant all people have this, even the lost?

Sean,

Yes, I am saying that when the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh on the Day of Pentecost that all people - saved and unsaved - have the law written on their hearts. When Jeremiah said "for they all shall know me from the least to the greatest," I think that includes everyone. How can the Holy Spirit convict someone of sin (John 16:8 ) if the law isn't already written on the heart?

Todd

I think if you look up other biblical uses of the phrase "all flesh" you will find it of limited scope, just as the same passage in Acts uses the phrase "there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven".

I believe what Jeremiah is referring to is everyone who enters into the new covenant.

This is the real issue here. Is the Law written only on the hearts of Christians or has it been written on the hearts of everyone? I believe that there was a fundamental difference in the way the Lord deals with mankind that was initiated on the Day of Pentecost. His Spirit was poured out upon all of mankind. Now everyone "knows" the Lord (has the Law written on their hearts). This is how the Gentiles were able to obey the law "by nature" (Rom 2:14-15). This is what John was saying when he said that Christ enlightens "every man" (John 1:9). This is how the Holy Spirit can convict the world of sin (John 16:8 ) because everyone knows what he ought to do.

Todd

I believe Romans 2 says otherwise:

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

In verse 12 Paul is saying (in reference to the Gentiles) that those who sinned without the law will perish without law. This seems to say that they don't have it, since he says they are without it.

Then Paul goes on to say it's not the hearers but those who do (keep) the law that will be justified. So the point is made that it matters what you do. Paul then makes the point that you quote in verse 14. I beleive this is an extension of the point that those specific Gentiles who do right prove they are justified. This is said to deal a blow against the Jewish misconception that they were justified for simply having been given the law by Moses. Paul explains this in verses 17-29 making the point:

26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

So again, the proof that the law is written on "their" hearts is if that man keeps the "righteous requirements of the law"...29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

This is also part of what you refered to. The Spirit being poured out. If someone had a working done in them by the Holy Spirit, wouldn't they show it in their life as Paul said?


Acts 5:32 "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Those whom Paul mentions in Romans 2 are the very ones who have had "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit". Yet in places like Acts 5:32 it says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey him. Meaning it's not given to everyone. Or do you see this event as different from conversion?

It seems your point could only stand if all flesh (Gentiles included) actually kept Gods law. It seems to be the point of Romans 2 that it's not being a Jew that makes you justified but what you do, thereby proving your heart. But rather it's what you do. Verse 14 is Paul's way of proving this, that Gentiles by nature do what is right they prove thier new nature, as it were. It proves those Gentiles are saved, because of what they do proves it.

I think 1 John 2 also states what Paul is stating:

3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

If someone says they know him but does keep his commands how can it be said the truth is not in him if indeed the truth is written on their heart?

[_Sean]

Duplicate post

[Guest]

I believe Romans 2 says otherwise:

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

In verse 12 Paul is saying (in reference to the Gentiles) that those who sinned without the law will perish without law. This seems to say that they don't have it, since he says they are without it.?

They don't have the Law of Moses, but they do have the Law written on their hearts. Look again at verses 14 and 15.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law [of Moses], by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts,....

But this still doesn't answer your point. Is it just the Christian Gentiles that have the law written on their heart or ALL Gentiles? You seem to suggest that only Christians obey the Law of God therefore only Christians have it written on their heart. I disagree. First of all, Christians don't always obey it, and, Non-Christians sometimes do obey it. Actually, this the point I think Paul was making - that these Gentiles (who obey the law written on their hearts) had no knowledge of the Law of Moses. Christians, on the other hand, are taught the Law of Christ, which is the heart of the Law of Moses, which is to love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore, I think it is entirely possible that Paul was referring to Gentiles who were not Christian.

Then Paul goes on to say it's not the hearers but those who do (keep) the law that will be justified. So the point is made that it matters what you do. Paul then makes the point that you quote in verse 14. I beleive this is an extension of the point that those specific Gentiles who do right prove they are justified. This is said to deal a blow against the Jewish misconception that they were justified for simply having been given the law by Moses. Paul explains this in verses 17-29 making the point:

26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

So again, the proof that the law is written on "their" hearts is if that man keeps the "righteous requirements of the law"...29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

This is also part of what you refered to. The Spirit being poured out. If someone had a working done in them by the Holy Spirit, wouldn't they show it in their life as Paul said?


Acts 5:32 "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Those whom Paul mentions in Romans 2 are the very ones who have had "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit". Yet in places like Acts 5:32 it says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey him. Meaning it's not given to everyone. Or do you see this event as different from conversion??

I do see this as a separate event from conversion. When the Holy Spirit was given on the Day of Pentecost all of humanity was given the "knowledge of the Lord," as it is written in Jeremiah that no one would have to teach his neighbor or his brother saying, "know the Lord" for all shall know him. This doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will obey it even though they "know" it. Prior to that Day (of Pentecost) the vast majority of mankind was ignorant. As Paul said, God "overlooked" this past ignorance but now [now that they have the law written on their hearts] commands everyone to repent (Acts 17:30). And how does he command this repentance?.....through the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8 ). Notice that this scripture says that He convicts the WORLD of sin. How can the world be convicted of sin if they don't know what sin is? And how does the world know what sin is?....because they have the law written on their hearts.

Now this brings us to the next point. How does this call to repentance work? Remember when John the Baptist said that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with Fire (Luke 3:16). With the Holy Spirit came the "knowledge of the Lord" to the world, and the Fire is the conviction (or punishment) that is suffered when we don't obey it; hence, a call to repentance. This is what I believe is meant when we are told that we will be rewarded according to our works. Those who obey the law written on our hearts will be spiritually rewarded, while those who do not obey will be spiritually convicted or punished (as a call to repentance).

On the otherhand, those who are "converted" have made a commitment to Christ and his law and understand the blessings that come through discipleship. These have a special relationship with the Holy Spirit through prayer and submitting to the Lordship of Christ.

Todd

[Guest]

The following references to ignorance in Acts seem to give creedance to Todd's point.

Acts 3:17
And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.

Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

Thoughts?