Please note that i have used the term "sin nature" above for simplicity. i realize that we have had discussions elsewhere regarding whether we have a sin nature or not.
now for my question: we know that in Romans Ch 7 paul documents the struggle between the flesh and the new nature in Christ; he ends with the rhetorical question: "wretched man that i am! who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Did the OT believers have anything at their disposal to help them win this struggle? does the absence of any such means explain some of the barbarity in the OT, even by "believers?"
TK
How Did OT Believers Overcome Sin "nature?"
How Did OT Believers Overcome Sin "nature?"
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
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_STEVE7150
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Did the OT believers have anything at their disposal to help them win this struggle? does the absence of any such means explain some of the barbarity in the OT, even by "believers?"
As far as i know the only thing they had was faith in God and through that a motivation to follow the law as well as they could. But according to Ex 32.33 "The Lord said to Moses "Whoever has sinned against me , I will blot him out of My book."
I think it did lead to more violence because IMO Satan was in the OT much more then is apparent but the believers only could fight him in a physical dimension whereas now we can fight him spiritually.
As far as i know the only thing they had was faith in God and through that a motivation to follow the law as well as they could. But according to Ex 32.33 "The Lord said to Moses "Whoever has sinned against me , I will blot him out of My book."
I think it did lead to more violence because IMO Satan was in the OT much more then is apparent but the believers only could fight him in a physical dimension whereas now we can fight him spiritually.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
do you believe that OT "believers" were in the same boat as "non believers" today, in regard to the ability to live righteously?
TK
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Re: How Did OT Believers Overcome Sin "nature?"
Wasn't the sacrificial system setup for this? As a pointing to the true sacrifice of Jesus Christ.TK wrote:Did the OT believers have anything at their disposal to help them win this struggle? does the absence of any such means explain some of the barbarity in the OT, even by "believers?"
When you mention barbarity, are you referring to the specific acts or are you referring to the vast wide acceptance of it?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Luke 16:17 - It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
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_STEVE7150
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do you believe that OT "believers" were in the same boat as "non believers" today, in regard to the ability to live righteously?
I think the OT believers had a much greater fear of God which must have kept them more in line.
I think the OT believers had a much greater fear of God which must have kept them more in line.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Steve,STEVE7150 wrote:I think it did lead to more violence because IMO Satan was in the OT much more then is apparent but the believers only could fight him in a physical dimension whereas now we can fight him spiritually.
Just a few questions. Sorry, if it seems like I pick on your points, but you bring up interesting questions for me. What about Daniel? Did he not cause spiritual battles with his prayer? How do you interpret fighting spiritually? Thanks.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Luke 16:17 - It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
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_STEVE7150
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>Wasn't the sacrificial system setup for this? As a pointing to the true sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
It did provide for covering sins but it did'nt provide the grace to live a righteous life.
It did provide for covering sins but it did'nt provide the grace to live a righteous life.
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However, in essence wasn't the sacrificial system supposed to lead you to a repentant heart and therefore towards a righteous life? It seems that was one of the points Hosea 6:6 where the sacrifice was being done in vain, without repentance.STEVE7150 wrote:It did provide for covering sins but it did'nt provide the grace to live a righteous life.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Luke 16:17 - It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
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_STEVE7150
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Just a few questions. Sorry, if it seems like I pick on your points, but you bring up interesting questions for me. What about Daniel? Did he not cause spiritual battles with his prayer? How do you interpret fighting spiritually? Thanks.
Hi Micah, I'm no expert on this i'm really just speculating but I think it was Dan 12 where the prince of Persia (some demonic spirit) slowed down angels from helping Daniel so clearly there was some type of power that Satanic forces had and if they had it there then it was probably in the OT a lot but veiled.
By "fighting spiritually" i mean the way Paul described in Eph 6 , putting on the full armor of God. And James said "resist the devil and he will FLEE." And Peter said "the devil is LIKE a roaring lion" he is like , but he really isn't one because "stronger is He that is in us then he who is in the world."
I'm not sure if this is scriptural but sometimes i command the devil to be ineffective and binded, but that may not be scriptural.
Hi Micah, I'm no expert on this i'm really just speculating but I think it was Dan 12 where the prince of Persia (some demonic spirit) slowed down angels from helping Daniel so clearly there was some type of power that Satanic forces had and if they had it there then it was probably in the OT a lot but veiled.
By "fighting spiritually" i mean the way Paul described in Eph 6 , putting on the full armor of God. And James said "resist the devil and he will FLEE." And Peter said "the devil is LIKE a roaring lion" he is like , but he really isn't one because "stronger is He that is in us then he who is in the world."
I'm not sure if this is scriptural but sometimes i command the devil to be ineffective and binded, but that may not be scriptural.
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_STEVE7150
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However, in essence wasn't the sacrificial system supposed to lead you to a repentant heart and therefore towards a righteous life? It seems that was one of the points Hosea 6:6 where the sacrifice was being done in vain, without repentance
That's an interesting point and i think you're right because the killing of an innocent animal should have reminded the sinner about the gravity of sin assumming he had a conscience.
That's an interesting point and i think you're right because the killing of an innocent animal should have reminded the sinner about the gravity of sin assumming he had a conscience.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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