The Logos had a pre-incarnate body?

[Guest]

Folks, I'm a bit disturbed by some stuff that my pastor (who I love very dearly and with whom I regularly engage in edifying discussions on various issues) has been suggesting. He believes that the Logos, prior to His incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth, had a body. His reasons are basically the following:

- The LORD appears several time sin the scriptures in the from of man. In the Garden of Eden, He is said to be walking in the garden.

- The Father is specifically said to be a spirit and the Holy Spirit is by definition a spirit, but no such thing is ever said of Jesus.

- How could God create matter if He in Himself was not matter.

- The idea that God must be purely spiritual in nature is due to Greek Dualism (matter = evil, spiritual = good).

Based on these, he believes that the Logos has always been composed of (uncreated) matter.

Personally, this sounds extremely iffy to me and I challenged him pretty strongly in Bible study today. But the rest of church seemed to be going along with the idea as though it makes perfect sense.

So, am I missing something?
What do you guys think of this idea?

Ely

[Guest]

Hi Ely,

It seems like a dumb thing to speculate on in my opinion. People debate whether the appearances of God were theophanies or Christophanies, but either way, I don't think it necessarily means that God or Jesus had a material body at the time.

I think the scriptures teach that Jesus does have a resurrected body now though.

Hopefully they don't make it an official belief, eh?

in Him,
Les

[Guest]

Another reason given for this idea is that we are made in the image of God which must mean physical image.

It sounds so bizarre to me.

[Guest]

Hello Ely,

If you have a good Bible dictionary or other reference book or source, you might look up the term "incarnation". As Les said, you'll probably find a differentiation between the concepts of incarnation and pre-incarnations of God in several OT references. The pre-incarnations may also be referred to as prophetic manifestations, theophanies or appearances of "the Angel of the Lord". After careful study, I believe you will come to a position that fits with your own understanding of God. Your pastor has one view that many people may take. On the other hand, such teachers as The Bible Answerman, Hank H., seem to articulate a view that Jesus was first spirit then became flesh and now remains with the Father in a resurrected body that can be described in 1 Corinthians 15. I think you'll have to decide whether you believe Jesus and the Angel of the Lord could be one in the same. I'm sure someone here can give you a better answer and Steve may have covered this topic in one of his teachings but I'm not sure which it would be.

Happy studying,

livingink

[Guest]

Folks, I'm a bit disturbed by some stuff that my pastor (who I love very dearly and with whom I regularly engage in edifying discussions on various issues) has been suggesting. He believes that the Logos, prior to His incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth, had a body. His reasons are basically the following:

Hi Ely, In John 1.14 it says at the appointed time Jesus "became flesh and dwelt among us" which suggests that he was'nt in a physical body before if he became one.
He was most likely The Angel of the Lord in the OT but even regular angels could appear to be physical i believe, so certainly the pre-incarnate Christ could.

[Guest]

i agree steve.. doesnt the word "incarnation" mean "to become flesh?"

TK

[Guest]

Go a step further, and you have Adam himself being God, and the possibility of any of us become God, as affirmed by the larger Brighamite faction of the Mormon Church.

Before all ages, the Father begat a Son exactly like Himself. That didn't include having a physical body.

The three who appeared to Abraham are called "men" in Genesis, but that does not mean that they had physical bodies. One of the three, who remained with Abraham was addressed by Abraham as "Yahweh". That One, I believe to have been the Son of God. The other two who went ahead to Sodom are called "angels", but they all appeared to be ordinary human beings. Thus it is possible to "entertain angels unawares" Heb 13:2

[Guest]

Paidion,

From your study, what other type of body could the Son have had when he was with Abraham in your referenced case?

livingink