Authoritative spiritual leaders

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_Benzoic
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:49 pm

Authoritative spiritual leaders

Post by _Benzoic » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:22 am

I've been debating with a friend for a few years now. I think it has come to the point where he is just willing to be a Catholic because they claim to have the authoritative spiritual leader (pope). He continues to claim that God has always had a leader such as Moses, or the apostles for God's people. I was wondering if anyone could give me periods in the Bible in which Israel did not have a formal authoritative spiritual leader.

He also believes the Holy Spirit is not enough for a person to be guided into truth, that a believer also needs an authoritative teacher. My friend believes the Church was instituted to guide and direct people in Biblical matters more so that the Bible itself. He believes those who have no infallible teacher can never know scripture in an absolute sense.

I’m not really interested in any other comments about Catholics that prove their falsehood, because I have probably already studied and discussed those topics with my friend. This is why he is now basing his belief on the intuition that God has always had a spiritual leader for his people.

Thanks!
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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_Ely
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: UK

Post by _Ely » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:36 am

Here's some thoughts:

The main point
Jesus and only Jesus is:

Our High Priest of the church (Hebrews 7:20-8:6 etc)
The Mediator between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5).
The Head of the church (Ephesians 1:21,Colossians 1:18)
- He has not delegated any of these roles.

Other points
- While God indeed usually had a judge or King over the Iraelites, w ar ein a different dispensation and God is working differently now. Prior to Moses, there was no "authoritative spiritual leader."

- In actual fact, as stated before, God' speople do have an "authoritative spiritual Leader," His name is Jesus (see "main point"). To appoint another "authoritative spiritual leader" would be to usurp Jesus' authority. You can't have two heads of one body!

- Jesus chose 12 disciples, not one "authoritative spiritual leader"

- At the council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), the decision concerning circumcision was reached by the gathered saints along with the apostles and elders, not by one "authoritative spiritual leader"

- Paul, James, Peter, John, Jude (and the writer of Hebrews) all wrote epistles. Which one of them was the "authoritative spiritual leader", and why did none of them make any such claim?

- If Peter was the first "authoritative spiritual leader," why is James more prominent in the Jerusalem council, why is he (Peter) virtually absent from the book of Acts after the Jerusalem council and why does Paul openly rebuke Peter in Antioch (Galatians 2)?

- In Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5, Jesus and Paul make clear that local churches have the final say in ex-communication, not one "authoritative spiritual leader"

- The NT gives clear instructions on the qualifications of elders and deacons. We also see that the apostolic teams would appoint elders/bishops/pastors in every local church. Why no mention of an "authoritative spiritual leader" in Acts or in the epistles?

- The apostolic epistles are written to regular believers with no emphasis on the leadership. In fact pastors/overseer/elders and deacons are only directly addressed in a couple of letters (Philipians and 1 Peter) .

- In Revelation, Jesus addressed seven letters to seven churches. Why didn't He just address the letters to the one "authoritative spiritual leader" of all Christians?

- Finally, who was the "authoritative spiritual leader" between 1378 and 1415 when there were two and at one stage three popes reigning simultaneuously? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_schism

Hope some of these are of use,
Ely
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