Is anybody else a little weary of this...?

[Guest]

I raised my son a bit on conservative side...He has a big "dragon"
on his arm now and in a rock band....WOW, I would have NEVER
believed my son would go that way....BUT, many praying for him...
thanks Christopher for sharing a bit about your life and I know
where prayer is there is HOPE...

MLH,

Just thought I would chime in again to encourage you, that with God all things are possible. Of all the things a Christian could have, I have an inverted cross on my arm. A big one, inside of a big tribal pattern, as well as some other tattoos on my arms/forearms that are way too big to be removed without major expense (not that I would want to. They hurt bad enough going on!). Anyway, I got saved! Thank the Lord. There really is hope. We'll just pray!!

P.S. My tattoos don't bother me very much (though they may bother others!). Ever since I saw 'Beyond The Gates of Splender" and saw all of the tribal folks with their pagan tatttoos, I just kind of felt like they were a testimony of where I, like they, have come from. Just two different kinds of paganism. We'll all have them removed in the ressurection.

God bless you,

[Guest]

My threads ROCK!

5 pages and still going strong, can any of you guys/girls top that? I don't think so! I am so glad that everyone here has had the joyous experience of my presence.

LOL....J/K..

I love you guys/girls

[Guest]

As far as tatoos go, I just wonder why a Christian would want one. I mean, we don't read of Christ or the apsotles having them so why get one?

This logic breaks down when we consider that neither Jesus nor the apostles drove cars, wore pants, drank coffee, played guitar, participated in a online Bible forum, etc. However, this is not to say all should get a tattoo.

My point is in regard to tatoos. We don't see Jesus following, but rather leading the culture. Why not show the culture that you don't need tatoos to be "culturally relevant". Jesus fulfills all we need. As to the more modern things listed, the point still applies. While you can have a car, cloths, etc. the question is not if it is right to have one or not, it's what does it mean to you? In other words is your car meant to impress others? Are your clothes tailored to impress certain people, etc. It's the heart that's the issue.

While it might not be sin, it sure seems like it can be baggage and even an offense.

If it would be an offense to the culture to whom God has called you, then I would sure want to evaluate it carefully in light of conscience and Scripture. However, offending someone is inevitable when a person truly follows Christ.

I disagree that it's inevitable.

Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16 Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil.

While I agree we shouldn't judge another Christian if they have tatoos, my point is why have one if it would stumble a weaker Christian? Just to boast in our liberty? To rub it in? Why not simply make up our mind not to place any stumbling block(s) in front of others.

Take Paul's example. He often "offended" fellow Jewish believers because of his stance of Jewish customs not applying to Gentiles. But we read instances where he had Timothy circumcised and he even paid for a temple purification right. It seems that Paul left us an example that there isn't any easy answer in the tension between reaching a lost world of many cultures and causing offense.

Theres no point in offending an unbeliever for no reason other than "I can". Isn't it easier to humble ones self and not offend someone? What would the most loving thing be?

[Guest]

mort wrote:

Who are we to claim to know the heart motives of other believers? Isn’t that a bit like trying to take the Holy Spirit’s place? Isn’t it presumptuous?

possibly, but we are to have discernment. for example, when i flip through the channels and see Joel Osteen (sorry all you joel osteen fans) i about want to gag. nope, i dont know him, and nope i dont much about his church-- other than it's huge. don't know much about his theology. but what i see makes me want to gag. not because of his style (which i guess does kind of make me want to gag) but because of the extreme shallowness of his feel-good messages. i think you could watch his show 100 times and never hear the gospel.

TK

[Guest]

Hey, don't pick on Joel Osteen!

I once saw him give a sermon on eating a balanced breakfast, and it was anointed!

[Guest]

Personally, I’d rather follow my Lord Jesus and be known as a friend to sinners. It is possible (actually mandated) to do this without becoming tainted, but it takes wisdom.

I think we could all agree that Jesus was a friend of sinners. However, the Bible never says that our Lord attunes himself to be less offensive to sinners. He never became like them, just for the mere cause of winning them to Himself. You never find a Bible verse that tells us this.

Jesus came for those who knew they needed a physician, not those who were content in their own sin. The folks Jesus hung out with were tired of their sinfulness, and so they came to our Lord, knowing that He had true healing. Is that the same thing as Christians mingling with the world, who could care less about their sin, and try to win them?

There is a place for entertainment, so long as it is kept in proper perspective and proportion, is used to edify, does not become idolatrous, etc. We in America live in an entertainment saturated culture where it has gotten terribly out of perspective and idolatrous. That doesn’t mean entertainment is inherently evil, any more than sex is. It’s how we misuse entertainment (or sex) that makes it evil.

With all due respect, I cannot find those statements supported by scripture. I do realize that entertainment is not inherently evil. Of course, it really depends on your definition of “entertainment.” In the Bible, we are called to have joy always, but is that the same thing as “entertainment” as defined by our culture?

When we don’t have “joy in the Lord” (according to the Biblical definition) we tend to artificially create it. And I think God gets sick of what He sees. When the joy isn’t flowing we tend to paint the pump. Today, we have tried to bridge the gap between two opposites: the world and the Church; and the combination, as Tozer says, is a pitiful hybrid.

I know I don’t have all the answers. I haven’t arrived. But we must be diligent in these days we live in; by God’s grace.

A book I recommend to all, is "Tozer on Worship and Entertainment":

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/ ... _no=661033

I think TK already mentioned this one, but I wasn't sure...

[Guest]

loaves wrote:

However, the Bible never says that our Lord attunes himself to be less offensive to sinners.

in fact, Jesus was SO inoffensive that it got him beaten within an inch of his life and nailed to a cross.

it seems that we have become SO fearful of offending and SO fearful that "they might not come back to church" that this fear has severely compromised the message.

that is what i am struggling with vis a vis this topic-- finding the balance between reaching sinners and at the same time not worry about offending them with the hard truth. if I had someone telling me the hard truth when i wandered away from the Lord in my college days, perhaps I wouldn't have wandered.

i guess one of the reasons we have to quote men like Tozer is that there doesnt seem to be many people out there saying the hard stuff these days. there are a few, but they are not well known, generally.

TK

[Guest]

Hey, don't pick on Joel Osteen!

I once saw him give a sermon on eating a balanced breakfast, and it was anointed!

Are you serious?

[Guest]

Are you serious?

Only kidding. Actually, I borrowed that line from someone else on this forum, but I can't remember who.

[Guest]

However, offending someone is inevitable when a person truly follows Christ.

I disagree that it is inevitable.

I agree that it is inevitable.

Who is as Christ-like as Christ Himself! Yet, when Jesus said, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you," many disciples were highly offended, and walked no more with Him.

Paul attempted not to offend. He said, "I will neither eat meat or drink wine if it causes my brother to stumble." Yet it seems that he thought better of it on another occasion when he asked, "Why should my liberty be determined by another persons scruples?"