How Did Inspiration Work??

Post by **_livingink** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:55 am

JF,

Some would reply that the church, the ekklesia, first met with Moses in the desert at Mt. Horeb (I think) . Within this gathering was a group of believers as well as a group that did not fully trust God. This group of believers understood that there was, in fact, one true God and one true church. So, when Jesus claimed that he would build HIS church upon the rock--himself--his audience understood that he was claiming to be God and that the church would continue under his headship. There would not be a second church but a continuation of the existing church and the true believer would recognize Jesus as the one true God. You may wish to comment on this view of scripture.

thanks,

livingink

Post by **_TK** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:09 am

Just so I am not misunderstood-- i do not believe that peter is the rock upon which the church was built. i think my old ryrie study bible's commentary on this passage was that jesus was likely referring to Peter's confession (that He was the Son of the God) as being the rock upon which the church will be built, not peter himself. but of course jesus is the head of the church.

TK

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:37 am

I agree Homer, there is no separation between the members of the body, but it seems to me that you told me in another thread, that does not apply to women. So it seems you think God has a bunch of special rules and restrictions. It was not a secret in the O/T that the gentiles would be a part of something new, and accepted by God. The secret was that all people would be a part of the Church with power, born of incorruptible seed, one new man out of the two Jew and Gentile.
I don't know what that means, but I am certain that Jesus is the Rock. Maybe he was saying "you are a little grain of sand, but upon this Rock(I, meaning himself) I will build my kingdom. It was not a secret either that the messiah would rule, all in the O/T, from which Jesus being not born with a sin nature could understand perfectly. The words used in that passage are different words Peter, meaning small grain(perhaps).

Follow this link and retain a fuller and more thorough explaination, then check scripture.
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/module ... nt&sid=163

Christianity 101: Two Adams

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:46 am

Just so I am not misunderstood-- i do not believe that peter is the rock upon which the church was built. i think my old ryrie study bible's commentary on this passage was that jesus was likely referring to Peter's confession (that He was the Son of the God) as being the rock upon which the church will be built, not peter himself.

If Ryrie wa correct, then why did Jesus utter the words "You are Peter"?
Peter knew his own name. So surely this statement had some relevance to the whole utterance.

We are told in Ephesians 2:19,20 that the Household of God [the Church] is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. So would not Peter have been one of the stones in that foundation?

I think Jesus said, "You are petros [a stone] and upon this petra [bedrock] I will build my church." Jesus is called a rock in many places. He was the bedrock of the foundation of the Church, and many stones [apostles and prophets] were welded upon that bedrock to become part of the foundation. Others [living stones] were fit exactly into the building to complete the structure.

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:03 pm

I think you might be on to something there Pia, Jesus is the cornerstone and all members of the body build the Church off that cornerstone to stay in square. The ministries such as apostles, prophets, teachers are all to be square with the Cornerstone. They are not titles of authority but ministries within the body. And apostle is a Church builder.
Also I think petros can mean a grain of sand. Peter was certainly blown back and forth throughout the Gospels and after, when Paul had to confront him. Yes Jesus is the Cornerstone, the Rock not Peter. And guess what? that brings us back to the revelation. Evidently Peter got right again and got to write down 1,2 Peter.

Post by **_livingink** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:01 pm

Since I didn't get a bite on my last post about the church originally meeting with Moses in the wilderness at Mt. Sinai, I will ask those participating to give answers to the following questions:

1. Jesusfollower, in an August 2 post, stated that there is one true God
in whom the church was hidden. He further states that Jesus "didn't
know". This appears to be a denial that Christ was God. Is this
a correct reading of JF's statement?

2. Jesusfollower also stated that the church started at Pentecost. I
was under the impression that the church was present in the wilder-
ness with Moses at Mt. Sinai as referenced by Stephen as recorded
in Acts 7:38. Which is correct?

I appreciate your consideration of these questions.

Sincere thanks,

livingink

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:44 am

LI, Jesus was not and is not God the Father, the One True God, you steadfastly cling to this RC doctrine. Even if you cling to this doctrine your people say he emptied himself of Deity.
It is talking about the Israelite's in Acts and recounting how they turned away from Moses. It is in no way speaking of the Church Of the Body in the Church Age, we have today.

Post by **_Derek** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:08 pm

Jesusfollower wrote:LI, Jesus was not and is not God the Father, the One True God, you steadfastly cling to this RC doctrine. Even if you cling to this doctrine your people say he emptied himself of Deity.
It is talking about the Israelite's in Acts and recounting how they turned away from Moses. It is in no way speaking of the Church Of the Body in the Church Age, we have today.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to intrude, and I realize this is off the topic of the thread, but who said that Jesus was "God the Father"?

Post by **_TK** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:21 pm

no one, derek, that I can see. sure wasnt me!

TK

Post by **_livingink** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:30 pm

Thanks for intruding, Derek. Jesusfollower again uses a misquote to attempt to make a point. No one has said that Jesus is the Father. The question was more correctly rendered "Was Jesus God" and it appears that Jesusfollower dodges the question and attempts to divert attention away from JF's refusal to answer. By the way, I do not know who JF means when he refers to "your people" as I am not aware that any of my relatives are posting here. Paidion, Homer and others whose opinions I have grown to respect are posting but I am in the dark if they are my relations.

I do respect Jesusfollower's understanding that the church in the wilderness and the church at Pentecost were two different entities but I do not agree with that position. My understanding is more in line with my previous post that they are one in the same.

livingink