Baptism

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:17 am

Homer, I think John the Baptist stated what water baptiam is for. "As for me ,i baptize you with water for repentance ,but He who is coming after me is mightier than i ,and i am not fit to remove his sandels.He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matt 3.11
John said "I baptize you with water for repentance."
Here are a few verses that only mention belief without baptiam.
"so that whoever believes will in him have eternal life." John 3.15
"He who believes in Him is not judged, he who does not believe has been judged already,because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3.18
"Truly truly I say to you ,he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life." John 5.24
"Truly truly ,I say to you ,he who believes has eternal life." John 6.47
"He who believes in Me as the scriptures said ,From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water." John 7.38
Jesus said to her "I am the resurrection and the life ,he who believes in Me will live even if he dies." John 11.25
IMO if baptism were essential for salvation at the time of believing Jesus could not omit baptism in these verses and other verses too. It is symbolic for repentance which is the first act of obedience IMHO.

Post by **_Homer** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:30 pm

Steve7150,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Your response regarding the meaning of Christian baptism seems to imply that being baptized into the name of Jesus does not have the meaning of faith. In all nine conversion narratives in the book of Acts the factors common to each are hearing the gospel, believing, and responding in baptism.

You listed six verses that mention belief without baptism. In every case, believe is a present participle in the Greek which indicates continuous or repeated action. In other words "faithful until death and I will give you a crown of life". John 3:16 is the same as well. I do not believe Jesus had in mind a conversion but rather a life. In my view "getting saved" is not a transaction but a lifelong faithfulness.

God bless, Homer

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:36 pm

Homer, I agree with you that salvation is a life long thing an abiding in Christ. But initially what gets a person on the process of salvation? Belief is a spiritual thing and everything else is a physical manifestation of that sincere belief. Clearly baptism is so joined at the hip with belief that there is almost no difference. Except in unusual circumstances where one believes but for some reason can't get baptized, IMO that is a saved person. But if one gets baptized for possibly a marriage ceremony at a church but that person does'nt believe is he saved? I think we can agree he isn't saved and that's why without belief nothing else matters but without baptism it's possible a person can still be saved depending on the circumstances. At least that's how i see it.

Post by **_Homer** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:43 pm

How about that! We agree!

Blessings, Homer

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:41 am

How about a person who "believes" but refuses to get baptized, because he doesn't think it necessary?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:13 am

Homer, I'm pleased as punch we agree! It must be the Christmas Spirit upon us.
Blessings to you too.

Post by **_chriscarani** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:15 am

Paidion wrote:How about a person who "believes" but refuses to get baptized, because he doesn't think it necessary?

That's a very interesting question that I would like to hear different perspectives on.

My great aunt and uncle are Catholic but they live in a very small town in Georgia. The only church in town is a Baptist church and they attend the weekly Sunday sermons. The Pastor will not allow them to become members because they will not under go a full immersion baptism and doesn't feel they are saved. They are an elderly couple and feel the Catholic baptism was the only one they needed to undergo. They are strong in their position, but they still attend services every week.

What do you guys/gals think?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:21 am

Unless he is really ignorant of scripture or grossly misinformed i think there is a problem. Even if someone is misinformed i think they have an obligation to look into this and check with knowlegable people. I was told it was'nt necessary but it did'nt seem right so i checked into it.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:10 pm

Hi Chris, My previous post was for Paidion but wow what an odd situation. I could be wrong but IMHO they probably are because they believe they have been baptized so they don't believe they have done anything wrong and maybe they think by rebaptizing that means they are acknowleging that all Catholic baptisms are invalid.
Did you leave the other forum cause you got tired of going around in circles?

Post by **_chriscarani** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:27 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:Hi Chris, My previous post was for Paidion but wow what an odd situation. I could be wrong but IMHO they probably are because they believe they have been baptized so they don't believe they have done anything wrong and maybe they think by rebaptizing that means they are acknowleging that all Catholic baptisms are invalid.
Did you leave the other forum cause you got tired of going around in circles?

In regards to the baptism, yes that is it; they feel like when they were baptized in the Catholic Church that was enough. I agree with them even though I have been baptized by full emersion.

As far as THC yea tired of going in circles and getting my legs knocked out from under me. When I saw OldBoy agreeing with Jackal’s analogy post and even complimenting him on it that was the final straw. There are too many anti-Christ's (I don't mean that in an Armageddon, Satan in the flesh way) in there bent on destroying the Christian doctrine and faith. I left BouncersPlace for good for the same reason.

To me it is not natural to have to defend what you believe day in and day out it’s mentally and spiritually exhausting. Especially with the atheists, they are the most brutal opponents and I’ve spent enough energy researching the skeptics as you know. You will see me in here much more. I have decided to start from the beginning on the verse by verse and will have many questions.

We need warriors in there though and you seem to be better equipped than I, you will be in my prayers.