Reincarnation question
Re: Reincarnation question
I have enjoyed reading every ones responses, thanks.
I have a question about Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD" And since Jesus said that John the baptist was Elijah, for those who are willing to receive it. (Matt 11:14), how do you "describe" that? Would we not say that Elijah's spirit came back to earth and "inhabited" the physical body that we know to be John the baptist? is that not reincarnation of some sense? Or maybe I don't really understand the definition of reincarnation. As far as I understand it, John the baptist was the fullfillment of Malachi 4:5, and therefore Elijah as affirmed by Jesus own words.
Thanks
Doug
I have a question about Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD" And since Jesus said that John the baptist was Elijah, for those who are willing to receive it. (Matt 11:14), how do you "describe" that? Would we not say that Elijah's spirit came back to earth and "inhabited" the physical body that we know to be John the baptist? is that not reincarnation of some sense? Or maybe I don't really understand the definition of reincarnation. As far as I understand it, John the baptist was the fullfillment of Malachi 4:5, and therefore Elijah as affirmed by Jesus own words.
Thanks
Doug
Re: Reincarnation question
John the Baptist himself said that he was NOT Elijah who was predicted to come.
I think Jesus simply meant that John would proclaim repentance with the same spirit and power that Elijah did.
As I see it, Elijah did not die, but his physical, mortal body was preserved by the Lord to this day, and will continue to be preserved until he comes again in the last days as one of the two witnesses described in Revelation.
I think Jesus simply meant that John would proclaim repentance with the same spirit and power that Elijah did.
As I see it, Elijah did not die, but his physical, mortal body was preserved by the Lord to this day, and will continue to be preserved until he comes again in the last days as one of the two witnesses described in Revelation.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Reincarnation question
Yup, this always confused me, and still does to be honest. He says he is not, yet Jesus says he is. And yet I believe both to be correct. And you (paidion) may be correct, but I think there is a possibility that this "spirit" that John the Baptist had was indeed the same "Spirit" that was Elijah, literally.Paidion wrote:John the Baptist himself said that he was NOT Elijah
And along those lines, would there be any Scripture verses that would tell us that this could not be possible?
Re: Reincarnation question
Yes there are:
Psalm 146:3,4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his thoughts have perished.
Do these statements from Psalms say what they seem to say? That now is the time to praise God, since after death we have no remembrance of God, for our thoughts have perished. We have no consciousness.
I Corinthians 15: 16-20:For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
It seems that Paul is saying that if the dead is not raised, then the dead in Christ have perished. They are dead and gone forever.
I also notice the word “sleep” is frequently used in the New Testament for death. Our Lord Himself so used it. I wondered why this word would be used for death, if the dead are happily walking around in heaven fellowshipping with those who have gone before, or witnessing the events on earth, which is how some interpret the “cloud of witnesses” mentioned in Hebrews 12:1. They wouldn’t be sleeping would they?
John 11:11-14 Thus he spoke, and then he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going to awake him out of sleep."
The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he’ll be all right."
Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.”
So I wonder why Jesus would have used sleep as a figure of speech concerning death, if the dead are conscious.
I find that Paul emphasized the resurrection. For Paul, the resurrection was the great hope. Without it, we would be dead forever.
I Cor 15:32 ...If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."
Jesus declared:
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
Four times in John 6, Jesus declares that He will raise His disciples on the last day.
Why didn’t Jesus say, “... and I will take him to heaven when he dies.”? What’s the importance of his being raised up? Not much importance, it seems, if it’s just a matter of attaching a body to the soul. But a great importance, if that is the only way a person is going to live again.
2Co 4:14 ... knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
As I understand it, Paul was saying that we will be brought into the presence of God, or of the risen Jesus, not at the time of our death, but at the time that God will raise us from death.
So if the Elijah is dead (and therefore not aware of anything) until the resurrection, then how can his conscious "spirit" have entered John the Baptist? On the other hand, if God has preserved Elijah alive in his mortal body (as I believe to be the case), then how could Elijah's "spirit" (if he has a spirit separate from his body) enter into another body? Has your spirit ever entered into another person's body?
Psalm 146:3,4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his thoughts have perished.
Do these statements from Psalms say what they seem to say? That now is the time to praise God, since after death we have no remembrance of God, for our thoughts have perished. We have no consciousness.
I Corinthians 15: 16-20:For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
It seems that Paul is saying that if the dead is not raised, then the dead in Christ have perished. They are dead and gone forever.
I also notice the word “sleep” is frequently used in the New Testament for death. Our Lord Himself so used it. I wondered why this word would be used for death, if the dead are happily walking around in heaven fellowshipping with those who have gone before, or witnessing the events on earth, which is how some interpret the “cloud of witnesses” mentioned in Hebrews 12:1. They wouldn’t be sleeping would they?
John 11:11-14 Thus he spoke, and then he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going to awake him out of sleep."
The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he’ll be all right."
Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.”
So I wonder why Jesus would have used sleep as a figure of speech concerning death, if the dead are conscious.
I find that Paul emphasized the resurrection. For Paul, the resurrection was the great hope. Without it, we would be dead forever.
I Cor 15:32 ...If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."
Jesus declared:
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
Four times in John 6, Jesus declares that He will raise His disciples on the last day.
Why didn’t Jesus say, “... and I will take him to heaven when he dies.”? What’s the importance of his being raised up? Not much importance, it seems, if it’s just a matter of attaching a body to the soul. But a great importance, if that is the only way a person is going to live again.
2Co 4:14 ... knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
As I understand it, Paul was saying that we will be brought into the presence of God, or of the risen Jesus, not at the time of our death, but at the time that God will raise us from death.
So if the Elijah is dead (and therefore not aware of anything) until the resurrection, then how can his conscious "spirit" have entered John the Baptist? On the other hand, if God has preserved Elijah alive in his mortal body (as I believe to be the case), then how could Elijah's "spirit" (if he has a spirit separate from his body) enter into another body? Has your spirit ever entered into another person's body?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.