No need for repentance???

[Guest]

So in Mark 2.7 or Luke 15 , when Jesus references the scribes and Pharisees and calls them righteous....

I realize that it could be interpreted that Jesus is sarcastically calling them righteous; but it could also be true that He was not referencing them at all, but was really speaking of those whom He calls righteous. By the way, isn't sarcasm a sin? I can't think of a scripture that says so, but it seems like it is to me. If so, I don't think Jesus would participate sarcastic communication.

Todd

[Guest]

Todd wrote:

By the way, isn't sarcasm a sin?

That's a good question; i think it can be, but not always. sometimes it is used as a rhetorical device; the problem is that generally sarcasm is mean-spirited. i have said elsewhere that my grandma used to say that "sarcasm is the weapon of the weak."

however, sometimes sarcasm may be in order; elijah used it with the baal priests when they couldnt get fire to fall from heaven-- i think the actual language indicates that Elijah asked them if their God was using the john.

TK

[Guest]

[color=brown]By the way, isn't sarcasm a sin? I can't think of a scripture that says so, but it seems like it is to me. If so, I don't think Jesus would participate sarcastic communication. [/color]I think


Jesus employed it more then we assume and if i'm correct then it may be like righteous indignation. I'll try to present examples ASAP.

[Guest]

Mark 2:15-17
15While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

17On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners

If we will take the verse within it's context we will see that Jesus was referring to the Pharisees. Look at verse 17, "On hearing this............."

"this" is pointing to the comments that the pharisees made.

[Guest]

Mark 2:15-17
15While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

17On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners


If we will take the verse within it's context we will see that Jesus was referring to the Pharisees. Look at verse 17, "On hearing this............."

"this" is pointing to the comments that the pharisees made,
then after Jesus heard the comments he gave his reply to the people around him and his reply was "it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners"
therefore the righteous was referring to the pharisees. The pharisees are acting and thinking that they are righteous and Jesus was telling us what the pharisees are doing.

[Guest]

Paul--

i read several translations of the verses you quoted and you may be right; the NLT reads this way:

When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”

the underlined portion is what is left out in the more traditional translations. if this is actually what Jesus meant, then i agree that he was talking directly to the pharisees. if this is NOT what Jesus meant (i.e. that he simply meant "righteous" in a general sense, then it is possible he was simply making the point that those who already believe God dont need to be evangelized.

TK

[Guest]

Paul--

i read several translations of the verses you quoted and you may be right; the NLT reads this way:

When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”

the underlined portion is what is left out in the more traditional translations. if this is actually what Jesus meant, then i agree that he was talking directly to the pharisees. if this is NOT what Jesus meant (i.e. that he simply meant "righteous" in a general sense, then it is possible he was simply making the point that those who already believe God dont need to be evangelized.

TK

Why would Jesus say that He is not calling the Pharisees to repentance just because they think they are righteous? That makes no sense to me.

Todd

[Guest]

Eph 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Sarcasm is a destructive way of communication. I don't see how it could be considered edifying. While this scripture doesn't mention sarcasm, it seems as though it strongly discourages its practice.

Todd

[Guest]

todd wrote:

Why would Jesus say that He is not calling the Pharisees to repentance just because they think they are righteous? That makes no sense to me.

if paul and paidion are correct in their interpretation, Jesus was "jabbing" at the pharisees with his comments. Jesus was good at jabbing at the pharisees; he did it quite frequently. generally, he did so in a direct manner ("you are like whitewashed tombs," "you brood of vipers", etc.).

If Jesus was using sarcasm, then he did so in order to indirectly let the pharisees know that they DID in fact have to repent. But they didnt want to hear it. he could have come right out and told them that they were also sick and needed a doctor, but he was playing off their pride.

TK

[Guest]

I think sarcasm can be a from of anger and there were times in which Jesus showed his anger. For example when he threw the gamblers table in the synagogue.