"The Enneagram: for Christians"

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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:29 pm

Greetings Enneagramers, :wink:

A few things. First, on the eclecticenergies link.
As you can see it's, at least in part, a New Age site, having Chakras, I Ching, and so on. I went ahead and linked to it because the Enneagram itself is not New Age. And from taking Enneagram tests on other sites; I can tell that eclecticenergies is using the same psychological science (regarding the Enneagram) in their tests.

Second, the Enneagram is both generalized and detailed.
It's not about stereotyping or singling people out into being a a certain type. Neither is it like astrology (as it is popularly practiced), to where like you're supposed be be "like" your zodiac sign.
The Enneagram, like the Myers-Briggs, is based on psychological science. The types are general descriptions of your basic and secondary personality traits, or your type.

These kinds of tests for Christians.
I'm a Myers-Briggs INTP. By the Enneagram I'm either a 5w4 or a 5w9. When I looked up these types' descriptions they describe me quite well (accurately). However, as a believer I'm not saying anything like, "Well, I'm an INTP, so I might as well stay home all the time and read," :lol: No, of course not! God's Word that tells me that I'm not supposed to live like that. So the benefit of these tests are, imo, an alternate way of understanding your basic personality makeup. We don't need pysch tests to tell us our strengths and weaknesses. But these tests are helpful tools we can use toward that end (is really all this thread topic is about).

Another site (similarminds) has Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, and other types of free psych testing: http://similarminds.com/enneagram_word.html
The above link is their Enneagram.
(Similarminds classifies things rather differently).
E.g., here are my results from them:

5w9

Type 1 Perfectionism
|||||||||||||| 54%
Type 2 Helpfulness
|||||||||||| 46%
Type 3 Image Focus
|||||||||||||| 54%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity
|||||| 30%
Type 5 Detachment
|||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Type 6 Anxiety
|||||||||||||| 54%
Type 7 Adventurousness
|||||||||||| 46%
Type 8 Aggressiveness
|||||||||| 38%
Type 9 Calmness
|||||||||||||||| 66%

type | score | type behavior motivation
5 20 I must be knowledgable and independent to be happy.
9 16 I must be peaceful and easy to get along with to be happy.
1 13 I must be perfect and good to be happy.
3 13 I must be impressive and attractive to be happy.
6 13 I must be secure and safe to be happy.
2 11 I must be helpful and caring to be happy.
7 11 I must be high and entertained to be happy.
8 9 I must be strong and in control to be happy.
4 7 I must avoid painful feelings to be happy.
____________________________________________________


Note how they classify number 5 as "Detachment" as opposed to Thinker-Investigator, and 9 as "Calmness" rather than Peacemaker.

Actually, I think similarminds may be the most reliable and/or accurate of all the psych test sites I've used: Overall, I seem more like a 5w9 than a 5w4 (as I had gotten on another test).

See that 82%? Pretty "thoughtful," eh? I'm a 5 beyond any shadow of doubt!
(and didn't really have to think about it, I've ALWAYS been like this), :wink:

Lastly for now, psychologists who've studied all this stuff tell how you can use the Enneagram (also Myers-Briggs) to improve your life. You can find this yourself if you explore the sites. As an example, as an INTP, I can be lacking in E (E as opposed to I, Extraversion over against Introversion). In other words, I need to make conscious efforts to try to balance out my natural tendency to live in my own internal-world by considering others; their opinions, what others think and believe an so on. Another way to say this could be, "Though I have a strong internal sense of things; getting out and mingling with others is where I can make a difference" (or I can stay home forever and just post on blogs), :lol:

With the Enneagram, if you look around, you'll find the traits in other types you need to shoot for: Just like an I (Introvert, such as myself) needs to balance things by doing what doesn't come naturally (Extroversion, get out there in the world of people, places, ideas, and things), etc.

Psych tests or not, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I just felt these tests (the Enneagram primarily on this thread) would be a cool thing for us to look into and use.

Your Detached, Thinker-Investigator Christian friend,
who likes a calm, peaceful existence and atmosphere,
(and who doesn't have to know everything but wants to!)
Rick, Thanks! :)
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_Michelle
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Post by _Michelle » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:00 pm

Also I'm not sure if people can be, or should be, so neatly divided into categories.
I agree that perhaps we shouldn't pigeonhole people if the idea is to develop a way of determining which characteristics are more desirable and which individuals have them. I felt a little of that with this test (sorry TK) when some of the descriptors were: inertia, light-weight, stubbornness, complacency, and self-effacing (I do realize that the last one probably explains why I focused on the negative aspects, so, to be fair, we are also characterized as indomitable and all-embracing.)

I've also heard a fair share of Baptist-bashing lately, so I get the idea Paidion brought up about imagining you know someone based on their church denomination. In both cases I want to say, "But, but...I do know how to think too!"

I don't believe that putting people in neat little categories in order to pretend that we know them is the purpose that Rick_C had in mind, although he can correct me if I'm wrong. I liked his idea of looking at some of your personality quirks and thinking about how they affect your Christian walk and ministry. I think these tests just have a way of focusing your attention on some of those quirks. I found the results of my test to be a somewhat accurate representation of some of my qualities, and it was an interesting exercise to think about what areas I might need to be aware of and to work on.
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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:08 pm

P.S. Imo, take the similarminds test, folks.
P.S.S. Bible characters who were a 5...hmmmm...Doubting Thomas, I think?
"The truth is out there" -- Fox Mulder
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_Michelle
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Post by _Michelle » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:16 pm

Rick_C wrote:P.S. Imo, take the similarminds test, folks.
P.S.S. Bible characters who were a 5...hmmmm...Doubting Thomas, I think?
"The truth is out there" -- Fox Mulder
:shock: Rick! You could have given a language warning! The last item was a shock (although it made me laugh.) :shock:

edited to add: Interesting. They shuffle the items around so the shocking item will come at different times for different people...
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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:26 pm

Hi Michelle,
You wrote:I don't believe that putting people in neat little categories in order to pretend that we know them is the purpose that Rick_C had in mind, although he can correct me if I'm wrong. I liked his idea of looking at some of your personality quirks and thinking about how they affect your Christian walk and ministry. I think these tests just have a way of focusing your attention on some of those quirks.
Yes, these tests are just "another way to look at ourselves" (is what I meant).

And, yes, they can reveal what our quirks might be.
But at the same time they accentuate the positive (let's look at that too!), :wink:
You also wrote:I found the results of my test to be a somewhat accurate representation of some of my qualities, and it was an interesting exercise to think about what areas I might need to be aware of and to work on.
Yeah, that....me too.

Btw, in books on the Enneagram and on some sites they have very long lists of the characteristics of the Types, rated as: High Functioning, Average Functioning, to Low Functioning (I mean, like, 30 words for each).

It doesn't mean you "have" all of them. But it could mean you could get some of them. For example, a High Functioning 5 is perceptive but could become hyper-critical (in a bad way). So, each on their own level (we're all growing here), :)

I have to go (tell some friends I just found a job)!
Before I go I just want to say I don't want to go off into debates about denominations on this thread.

Or, the Enneagram is non-denominational, imo.
~ Peace ~
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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:42 pm

Quick post (as an aside on preconceived ideas and/or stereotyping).
Suzana wrote:
Also I'm not sure if people can be, or should be, so neatly divided into categories.

Don replied:
I agree. We think that if we put a person into a box (category), then we have a handle on the person. We think we know what he is. But that can be a serious mistake.

I think that this may sometimes be the motive even for asking a person what church he attends or belongs to. The one who asks often thinks he knows what that denomination or church teaches, and thus generalizes, thinking he knows what the person believes and practises. But most likely that information tells him very little, if anything, about that individual.
I agree, Don.

When I ask someone what church they go to, I usually have in the back of my mind a preconceived notion of what it is they believe. I can easily stereotype them (as I suppose we all could).

For example, not long ago I didn't know if United Methodists were theologically liberal or conservative. (In the media and on the web they had often been portrayed as liberal). Only after further investigation did I learn that though there is a significant "liberal wing" in the UMC (United Methodist Church); the majority of UMC churches and folks are theologically conservative---also discovering that all of the UMC churches in my area are the same.

Personal story.
I once got to know a Catholic guy at work. Somehow we came to the topic of "being saved." Strangely, I thought, this man knew what I was talking about! "But I thought you Catholic folk don't believe in getting saved," said I. "Well, this Catholic sure does!" he exclaimed, adding, "But I stayed in the Catholic Church so I could lead other Catholics to the Lord. They need to get saved just like everyone else!"
(I couldn't find any reasons to argue with that)......

"Ok," I thought to self, "this guy's a Catholic, eh?"
And a SAVED one at that...(Praise God and who knew?)....Anyways, I gtg.
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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:40 am

Quick note.
I took the similarminds test a little while ago...and didn't see anything requiring a language warning at the time (sorry about that, folks, maybe you should take another one).
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_Sean
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Re: "The Enneagram: for Christians"

Post by _Sean » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:13 am

Rick_C wrote: What's strange.
The very same people who say I "should be teaching" quite often also say they don't know what I'm talking about! or otherwise, don't appear to be all that interested? or have the intelligence to comprehend what I say? This strikes me as odd and I don't know what to do (unless they want to take the time and effort to Investigate?)....
HA! I hear the very same things said to me. :)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, my score is 5w6. :wink:
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By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)

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_Rick_C
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Post by _Rick_C » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:02 am

"You should teach the Bible and theology!"
Reply: "Like what, for example?"

"End Times Prophecy."
Reply: "OK, lets go to 1 Thessalonians chapter four."

"You mean the rapture when we go to heaven for seven years, right?"
Reply: "No, this chapter says doesn't say that. Look & tell me what it says."

"You don't believe in 'the' rapture?"
Reply: "Every Christian believes in 'the' rapture."

"Then why don't you?"
Reply: "Just tell me what it says, nothing more nor less."

"You think 'we have to go thru the tribulation?' Well, you can, but 'I won't be here'!!!"
Reply: "Never miiiiiind"....Go4it, Sean! :wink:
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_Michelle
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Post by _Michelle » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:41 pm

Rick_C wrote:"You should teach the Bible and theology!"
Reply: "Like what, for example?"

"End Times Prophecy."
Reply: "OK, lets go to 1 Thessalonians chapter four."

"You mean the rapture when we go to heaven for seven years, right?"
Reply: "No, this chapter says doesn't say that. Look & tell me what it says."

"You don't believe in 'the' rapture?"
Reply: "Every Christian believes in 'the' rapture."

"Then why don't you?"
Reply: "Just tell me what it says, nothing more nor less."

"You think 'we have to go thru the tribulation?' Well, you can, but 'I won't be here'!!!"
Reply: "Never miiiiiind"....Go4it, Sean! :wink:
Aww...you give up to easily.
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