In 1st John 1.9 it he says "If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" except for the fact the verse says God is just , and God revealed an additional condition pertaining to one particular sin for the sake of justice.
"But if you do not forgive , neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." Mark 11.26
So apparently the sin of unforgiveness will not be forgiven unless we first do something affirmative , which is to forgive.
If we don't forgive then this sin can not be forgiven, as Jesus plainly said which would qualify this as the sin unto death or the unforgivable sin.
What do you think?
What is the sin unto death?
-
_STEVE7150
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:38 pm
What is the sin unto death?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
-
_STEVE7150
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:38 pm
What about "any willful sin that is not repented of"?
Homer, I think that hurts our fellowship with God but it isn't a matter of salvation.
But according to Mark 11.26 , unforgiveness does cost us our salvation, at least it sounds like this to me, which may make it a sin unto death.
Homer, I think that hurts our fellowship with God but it isn't a matter of salvation.
But according to Mark 11.26 , unforgiveness does cost us our salvation, at least it sounds like this to me, which may make it a sin unto death.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"sin unto death"
In one sense, and I know this is not what you are getting at, but "sin unto death"..... could this just mean physical death? Maybe?
Where again does it say in the Bible "sin unto death"? I am on break at work, so I don't have any references in front of me.
Doug
In one sense, and I know this is not what you are getting at, but "sin unto death"..... could this just mean physical death? Maybe?
Where again does it say in the Bible "sin unto death"? I am on break at work, so I don't have any references in front of me.
Doug
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
I see a difference between “the sin unto death”, and the “unforgivable sin”.In 1st John 1.9 it he says "If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" except for the fact the verse says God is just , and God revealed an additional condition pertaining to one particular sin for the sake of justice.
"But if you do not forgive , neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." Mark 11.26
So apparently the sin of unforgiveness will not be forgiven unless we first do something affirmative , which is to forgive.
If we don't forgive then this sin can not be forgiven, as Jesus plainly said which would qualify this as the sin unto death or the unforgivable sin.
What do you think? (Steve7150)
Unforgivness on our part can be repented of, which means God would then be willing to forgive us – which means then this sin is not essentially unforgivable.
Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this world or in the world to come.
But if we don’t repent, & wilfully continue to refuse to forgive others, in rebellion to God’s command, then God will not forgive us either, so that would qualify as a “sin unto death”, but I don’t think this is the only sin to lead to this state.
I think (like Homer) sin unto death could be referring to any continued, wilful unrepentant sin, in conscious rebellion against God’s known commands.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
As I understand it, anyone can be guilty of sinning inadvertently, or unthinkingly, or give in to temptation against our better judgement, and then be genuinely repentant. But it would be different if someone decides that the cost of discipleship is too much, or for whatever other reason turns away from God in deliberate rebellion - this to me would constitute the way toward sinning unto death.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Doug Wrote:
1 John 3:14 (New King James Version)
14. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
1 John 5:12 (New King James Version)
12. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
It would appear that the reference to "sin unto death" is referring to separation from Christ, or spiritual death.
Regarding the passage under question:
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it.
John first discusses a sin not unto death ["not unto death, me pro thanaton ("signifies tendancy toward, not necessarily involving death" (Word Studies, Vincent)]. This must be an outward, discernable sin (note sees his brother sin), and would seem to imply the brother requests prayer for himself, and indicates the importance of praying for each other: God will respond "and raise him up" (I believe this to be the true application of James 5:15).
Regarding the "sin unto death", Barclay comments:
"That does not mean the deadly sin; it means the sin which is going towards death, the sin, which, if continued in, must finish in death. The terrible thing about this sin which is pros thanaton is not so much what it is in itself, as where it will end, if a man persists in it"
We should consider what John has said in 1 John 1:7:
1 John 1:7 (New King James Version)
7. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
We have assurance as we "walk in the light", which would seem to include repentance and prayer (1 John 1:7), that our Advocate with our Father cleanses us from our sin. But what of any stubborn, willful sin? Interestingly, in the Greek there is no article "a" in front of "sin" in verse 16 which would seem to indicate John had no particular sin in mind.
Wayne Fussell comments:
"The sin unto death is not any specific sin. Depending on the attitude of the sinner, any sin may end in death. If the sinner is obstinate and unyielding, the sin leads to death. If the sinner is obedient and yielding, the sin is "not unto death" and can be forgiven. Highhandedness in sinning is dangerous. "Unto is pros and literally means "face to face". The person who goes on in his sinful activity, without repentance, confession, and prayer, stands face to face with death, spiritual suicide. It does no good to pray that he be forgiven, for his impenitance precludes forgiveness. Can such a person ever be saved? Certainly, if he will repent and confess his sin, God will answer prayer on his behalf. '
From the context of 1 John it would seem unlikely John is referring to physical life or death. Christians are said to have passed from death to life:"sin unto death"
In one sense, and I know this is not what you are getting at, but "sin unto death"..... could this just mean physical death? Maybe?
1 John 3:14 (New King James Version)
14. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
1 John 5:12 (New King James Version)
12. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
It would appear that the reference to "sin unto death" is referring to separation from Christ, or spiritual death.
Regarding the passage under question:
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it.
John first discusses a sin not unto death ["not unto death, me pro thanaton ("signifies tendancy toward, not necessarily involving death" (Word Studies, Vincent)]. This must be an outward, discernable sin (note sees his brother sin), and would seem to imply the brother requests prayer for himself, and indicates the importance of praying for each other: God will respond "and raise him up" (I believe this to be the true application of James 5:15).
Regarding the "sin unto death", Barclay comments:
"That does not mean the deadly sin; it means the sin which is going towards death, the sin, which, if continued in, must finish in death. The terrible thing about this sin which is pros thanaton is not so much what it is in itself, as where it will end, if a man persists in it"
We should consider what John has said in 1 John 1:7:
1 John 1:7 (New King James Version)
7. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
We have assurance as we "walk in the light", which would seem to include repentance and prayer (1 John 1:7), that our Advocate with our Father cleanses us from our sin. But what of any stubborn, willful sin? Interestingly, in the Greek there is no article "a" in front of "sin" in verse 16 which would seem to indicate John had no particular sin in mind.
Wayne Fussell comments:
"The sin unto death is not any specific sin. Depending on the attitude of the sinner, any sin may end in death. If the sinner is obstinate and unyielding, the sin leads to death. If the sinner is obedient and yielding, the sin is "not unto death" and can be forgiven. Highhandedness in sinning is dangerous. "Unto is pros and literally means "face to face". The person who goes on in his sinful activity, without repentance, confession, and prayer, stands face to face with death, spiritual suicide. It does no good to pray that he be forgiven, for his impenitance precludes forgiveness. Can such a person ever be saved? Certainly, if he will repent and confess his sin, God will answer prayer on his behalf. '
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
A Berean
Homer, brother.
I believe that 1 Jn 5:16 is refering to physical death, and that was the verse that I was thinking about in regards to the topic "sin unto death".
My reason for understanding it that way is that how am I to know that someone else has committed a sin leading to death that I should not pray for? As long as someone else if physically alive, and sinning, I will pray for them. Won't you brother?
Doug
I believe that 1 Jn 5:16 is refering to physical death, and that was the verse that I was thinking about in regards to the topic "sin unto death".
My reason for understanding it that way is that how am I to know that someone else has committed a sin leading to death that I should not pray for? As long as someone else if physically alive, and sinning, I will pray for them. Won't you brother?
Doug
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: