No need for repentance???

[Guest]

Righteousness" is not restricted to utter perfection; rather, it is a matter of fundamental character.



What i mean Todd is that in the realm of Christianity we obtain righteousness through real faith in God in the OT and real faith in Christ in the NT otherwise known as "imputed righteousness."
We all sin and we all need to repent and gradually over the course of our lives if we follow Christ, we will become more like him but none of us are righteous on our own. If we are deemed righteous it's a gift of God and if we believe ourselves to be righteous (like some Pharisees) then we are a long way from the Kingdom of God.

Steve,

So are you saying that when Jesus speaks of the righteous ones who need no repentance He is speaking of those who through faith have "imputed" righteousness but not "actual" righteousness? I think that this is what TK is alluding to as well.

Todd

[Guest]

So are you saying that when Jesus speaks of the righteous ones who need no repentance He is speaking of those who through faith have "imputed" righteousness but not "actual" righteousness? I think that this is what TK is alluding to as well.



Todd, No i think Jesus means the Pharisees are self righteous and whether you call this method of speaking , sarcasm or irony or rebuking IMO that's the point he is making.
And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind." John 9.39

[Guest]

So are you saying that when Jesus speaks of the righteous ones who need no repentance He is speaking of those who through faith have "imputed" righteousness but not "actual" righteousness? I think that this is what TK is alluding to as well.



Todd, No i think Jesus means the Pharisees are self righteous and whether you call this method of speaking , sarcasm or irony or rebuking IMO that's the point he is making.
And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind." John 9.39

Steve,

What about all those Old Testament verses that Emmet quoted? Are those sarcasm too? Or are those "imputed righteousness" or "actual righteousness"?...or something else?

Todd

[Guest]

What about all those Old Testament verses that Emmet quoted? Are those sarcasm too? Or are those "imputed righteousness" or "actual righteousness"?...or something else?



Todd, I think these references from the OT credited people with righteousness because they believed God, as opposed to believing in God. And the way one believes God is to do what He commanded. Jesus said "why do you call me good, no one is good except God.
Therefore if we believe God/Jesus and do what he said then IMO we are credited with imputed righteousness.
The heart of Christianity is that Jesus lived a sinless life for us because we can't therefore even these people in the OT did'nt live sinless lives and according to James if you break any part of the law you've broken the entire law thus the need of a Savior.
Emmet is describing judaism which really is about our life here on earth and has almost no revelation about an afterlife.
IMO it is an unfinished story that Jesus finished and i consider Jesus and his apostles as having the final say.