So, what did Jesus get out of it?

[_Ely]

I've been thinking about this for a little while now and after something that was said on the "why did Jesus have to die?," it's time to spit it out!

Perhaps it seems cruel that Jesus had to endure the torture that he did but perhaps God allowed Jesus to go through it because He knew Jesus could endure it and like Hebrews says "through his suffering he was perfected."

We tend to look at Jesus' ministry as a totally altruistic and selfless thing. But think about it, he actually gained an enourmous reward as a result of his perfect obedience to the Father. Growing up in Israel, he knew all that had been spoken of from Moses right through to Zacharias (father of John the Baptist) concerning the glory of the Messiah. This anointed servant of Yahweh was going to be a very, very, very great man. By far the greatest of all men. "The man of men", if you like!

He was the one in whom the promises to made to the patriarchs would be fulfilled (Luke 1:68-73). He was the one whose kingdom and throne would be established 'forever' and would be called the son of God (2 Sam 7, Isaiah 9). He was the one who would inherit the nations and the ends of the earth (Psalm 2). He was the one who would be anointed with the oil of gladness more than all his companions (Ps 45). He was the one whose enemies would be made a footstool for his feet and who would be a priest 'forever' according to the order of Melchizedeck (Ps 110). He was the rod from the stem of Jesse who would be abundantly filled with the spirit of God and would stand as a banner to the Gentiles and whose resting place would be glorious (Isaiah 11).


The sublime epistle to the Hebrew tells us that as result of Yeshua's sufffering, he...

"has become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." 1:1

"[was] crowned with glory and honor" 2:9

"[was] made perfect" 2:1

"[learned] obedience... and having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" 5:8-9

"obtained a more excellent ministry [than that of the Levitical hight priests] and became mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises [than the covenant given through the great Moses]" 8:6


Jesus had a massive amount to gain for himself. In light of all of this, I think we can now get a better sense of what the following sayings.

“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Messiah to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” Luke 24:25-26

"for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross." Hebrews 12:2

I'm just just glad that he did and that I am a partaker of his life now and a co-heir to his glorious inheritance to come!

Hallelujah!

[Guest]

“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Messiah to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” Luke 24:25-26

"for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross." Hebrews 12:2

I'm just just glad that he did and that I am a partaker of his life now and a co-heir to his glorious inheritance to come!



Good post Ely, His gain is our gain if we abide in him, "all authority in heaven and on earth has been GIVEN to me." Matt 28

[_Ely]

Good post Ely, His gain is our gain if we abide in him, "all authority in heaven and on earth has been GIVEN to me." Matt 28

Amen!

[Guest]

Thank you, Eli, for your exposition of the truth concerning "what Jesus got out of it".

I have always believed Jesus' sacrifice was entirely altruistic. I still do.
He reaped great benefits, but that was not the reason He sacrificed Himself. He did it in obedience to the Father, and for our sakes.

Analagously, we shall reap great benefits in dying to the self-life and serving Christ. But "God forbid" that that is the reason we became disciples.

[Guest]

STEVE7150 wrote:
Perhaps it seems cruel that Jesus had to endure the torture that he did but perhaps God allowed Jesus to go through it because He knew Jesus could endure it and like Hebrews says "through his suffering he was perfected."

And Ely said:

He was the one in whom the promises to made to the patriarchs would be fulfilled (Luke 1:68-73).

Interestingly, the Greek word teleioo, translated "perfect" in the passage in Hebrews referenced by Steve7150, also can be translated "fulfill" or "finish". So Jesus could not fulfill the prophecies or be finished (or completed) as Savior until the atonement was completed.

[Guest]

Interestingly, the Greek word teleioo, translated "perfect" in the passage in Hebrews referenced by Steve7150, also can be translated "fulfill" or "finish". So Jesus could not fulfill the prophecies or be finished (or completed) as Savior until the atonement was completed.

Can it be so translated in Hebrews 2:10? What would it mean "to fulfill the pioneer of their salvation through suffering"? You speak about Jesus fulfilling the prophecies. Well and good. But Hebrews 2:10 does not speak of prophecies being fulfilled. It speaks of Jesus being perfected (not fulfilled)

I have not been able to find a single translation that does not use "perfect" in Hebrews 2:10. Do you know any which use "fulfill"?

Acts 20:24 ...that I might complete my course with joy.

Here the word "complete" is used. "to perfect" has the same meaning as "to complete". In this verse, one could translate the phrase as
"that I might fulfill my course with joy." For in this context, "to fulfill my course" would have the same meaning as "to complete my course".

But "to perfect the pioneer of our salvation" does not have the same meaning as "to fulfill the pioneer of our salvation." Indeed, I question whether the latter phrase has any meaning at all.

[_Ely]

Thank you, Eli, for your exposition of the truth concerning "what Jesus got out of it".

I have always believed Jesus' sacrifice was entirely altruistic. I still do.
He reaped great benefits, but that was not the reason He sacrificed Himself. He did it in obedience to the Father, and for our sakes.

Analagously, we shall reap great benefits in dying to the self-life and serving Christ. But "God forbid" that that is the reason we became disciples.

Paidion, as I read the Scriptures, I find saints are very often enocuraged to look at the rewards set before us as a motivation to obey God. For example, remember the conversation between Peter and the Messiah:

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

This would have been a good time to issue a rebuke to Peter for being shallow and selfish. He could have explained that the joy of being a disciple is it's own reward. But no:

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first. Matthew 19

God designed us as beings which respond to incentives. From the graden of Eden onwards, God says obey Me, and you will have this and that reward:

"we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly awaiting the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we are saved in this hope" (Romans 8:23-24)

"you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise" (Hebrews 10:36)

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3

"To him who overcomes. I will give him to eat from the tree of life which is the midst of the paradise of God" (Rev 2:7).

Likewise, Jesus had a hope set before him. but first he had a task to complete. He completed this task, therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philipians 2:9-11

Actually, I think this may be area that we need to focus on more when we discuss the necessity of Jesus' work. We tend to focus on how other people needed Yeshua to suffer and die for their benefit. But perhaps we need to think much more about how Yeshua needed to suffer and die for his own benefit. "He is the head of the body, the ekklesia, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things he might have preeminence" (Col 1:18).

[Guest]

Paidioin,

As I indicated, I believe the word perfected means completed. Perhaps I was unclear, but it would seem obvious to me if you consider the meaning of the Greek word.

Ray Steadman's Commentary noted:

Commentators on Hebrews have pointed out that there is no reference to the love of God in this epistle. Though technically this is true, a text such as 2:10 reveals that behind the suffering and sacrifice of Jesus is the heart of a Father who longs to bring many sons to glory. Though the Father was in full control of all forces and events in the universe (for whom and through whom everything exists), it was necessary that he subject his beloved Son to a degree of agony and humiliation that could alone fit him to carry out that purpose. This is clearly the meaning of make . . . perfect through suffering. Jesus had always had a perfect character since his birth; perfection of function required the whole process of incarnation, ministry, death and resurrection. But it was love for the lost human race that drove both Father and Son to choose that process.

There was no lack of perfection in Jesus' character prior to the cross, however, He was functionally imperfect (incomplete) as an atonement (sacrifice) for sin.

Here's a translation for you in The Bible in Basic English:

Quote:
Because it was right for him, for whom and through whom all things have being, in guiding his sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation complete through pain.

[Guest]

There was no lack of perfection in Jesus' character prior to the cross, however, He was functionally imperfect (incomplete) as an atonement (sacrifice) Very Happy for sin.





Does'nt the bible say he grew in wisdom? If you lack wisdom it would seem there is room for growth in character.
At Jesus's baptism his Father said He was "well pleased" in his Son , what was the Father well pleased about? If He was well pleased about Jesus's obedience then it sounds like Jesus was tested and normally the purpose of testing is to overcome temptation through which there is growth.

[Guest]

Here's a translation for you in The Bible in Basic English:

Quote:
Because it was right for him, for whom and through whom all things have being, in guiding his sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation complete through pain.

I have no problem with the above translation, nor with your assertion that "perfect" is equivalent to "complete".

What I do question is the idea that Jesus was not perfected (or completed) only in the sense that He had not yet died.

There was no lack of perfection in Jesus' character prior to the cross, however, He was functionally imperfect (incomplete) as an atonement (sacrifice) for sin.

If He was already perfect, why did He have to learn obedience?

Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him... Hebrews 5:8,9 RSV

As the pioneer ("captain" if you prefer) of our salvation, He was the first to be raised to life, and the first to be perfected (that He might have the pre-eminence in all things). The rest of His disciples have been and those who are now living still are, moving on to pefection (completion) also. The fact that He was the first, is what makes Him a pioneer in this area.

Jesus learned obedience through what He suffered; we learn obedience through what we suffer. Jesus was made perfect (complete). We shall be made perfect (complete). When He returns, He will put the finishing touches on the present process of saving us from sin, and becoming conformed to the image of the Son.