The Biblical Meanings of "Soul"

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:50 am

[color=blue]Quote:
I am familar with Hebraic parallelism which is found in Isa 53 for example. But i have a Tanach with commentary and re Duet 6.5 they describe heart,soul and mind separately which suggests each has distinct attributes.

How does that relate to the Trichotomy view of body/soul/spirit?[/color]

I used heart,soul and mind because it divides a human into three parts but it does'nt precisely reflect body/soul/spirit because in hebrew "nepesh" or soul is used in a variety of ways.

Post by **__id_991** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:59 am

I used heart,soul and mind because it divides a human into three parts but it does'nt precisely reflect body/soul/spirit because in hebrew "nepesh" or soul is used in a variety of ways.

Steve7 ~ Will you please describe in more detail how heart/soul/mind and body/spirit overlap? Please contrast and compare them as this is such a confusion to me and I thought others might feel the same way. Will you recommend a book that explains in detail? Thanks!

CJ

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:57 am

I used heart,soul and mind because it divides a human into three parts but it does'nt precisely reflect body/soul/spirit because in hebrew "nepesh" or soul is used in a variety of ways.

Steve7 ~ Will you please describe in more detail how heart/soul/mind and body/spirit overlap? Please contrast and compare them as this is such a confusion to me and I thought others might feel the same way. Will you recommend a book that explains in detail? Thanks!

Hi Ciara, A book that helped me was "Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses" by Ron Rhodes and particularly the chapter on soul sleep.
If you are a former JW you would have been taught "soul sleep" but if you read my previous post on Dec 30 where i used Paul and Stephen as examples i think they believed our spirits or as Paul put it "inner man" go to be with the Lord and commune with him at the moment we die. Paul described the 3 parts of man in 1 Thes 5.13 and Hebrews 4.12 and in Romans 8 he said the Holy Spirit witnesses to our spirit.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:09 pm

But what does that have to do with Trichotomy?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:05 am

But what does that have to do with Trichotomy?

I referenced 1 Thes 5.13 and Heb 4.12 which trichotomists use and if Paul and Stephen believed their "inner man" leaves them at the moment of death and has the ability to commune with the Lord , then at least IMO it supports the trichotomy view.

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:43 pm

Mort Coyle wrote:

If I understand your viewpoint correctly, the soul/spirit ceases to exist upon death and is then recreated along with the body at the resurrection. If so, then to be absent from the body is to be non-existent. If one doesn’t exist, one cannot be anywhere or in anyone’s presence. Yet, in the 2 Corinthians passage Paul speaks of “being” or existing “away from the body” and contrasts that with being in a different location or form: “with the Lord”.

I am not sure what you mean by "recreation", Mort.

Paul said that the resurrection body differs as much from the present mortal body as the full grown wheat plant differs from the seed that is planted. In some sense, it is the same body, but a changed body.

Your statement that my view is that "the soul ceases to exist upon death and is then recreated..." suggests to me that you are still thinking in terms of the soul being a separate entity from the body.

Since I think essential meaning of "the soul" is "the self", then yes, when a person dies, he ceases to exist. I trust you don't think I mean anything beyond that.

I do not believe there is some ethereal entity called "the soul" which exists separate from the body, and "departs", "sleeps", or "dies" at death.

The person dies; his brain function ceases; the person does not exist. Only his body exists. God, who created his body, will raise the person up again. God has the ability to raise him up in such a way to ensure that he is the same indivual.

Somehow, the statement that "his soul is recreated" suggests to me that it might not turn out to be the same individual.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:09 pm

Paidion,

Ah, yes, I see where my viewpoint (dichotomy) was causing me to mis-state your view. Thanks for the clarification.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:32 pm

I referenced 1 Thes 5.13 and Heb 4.12 which trichotomists use and if Paul and Stephen believed their "inner man" leaves them at the moment of death and has the ability to commune with the Lord , then at least IMO it supports the trichotomy view.

Although 1 Thes. 5:13 and Heb 4:12 are given as the proof texts for Trichotomy, I believe they have been clearly and soundly refuted as not teaching Trichotomy (examples previously given).

Paul and Stephen believing that their "inner man" left at the moment of death only supports the idea of the "inner man" being able to exist seperately from the body. Dichotomists believe this as well as Trichotomists, so the argument really does nothing to support Trichotomy in and of itself.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:15 am

Although 1 Thes. 5:13 and Heb 4:12 are given as the proof texts for Trichotomy, I believe they have been clearly and soundly refuted as not teaching Trichotomy (examples previously given).

OK Mort then we will have to agree to disagree, nice talking to you it was interesting.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:10 am

I do not believe there is some ethereal entity called "the soul" which exists separate from the body, and "departs", "sleeps", or "dies" at death.

So Paidion, I'm curious about how you approach the story in Acts 12 where Peter miraculously escapes from prison and goes to the house of Mary the mother of John Mark where a group of believers is gathered.

Peter knocked at the outer entrance, and a servant girl named Rhoda came to answer the door. When she recognized Peter's voice, she was so overjoyed she ran back without opening it and exclaimed, "Peter is at the door!"

You're out of your mind," they told her. When she kept insisting that it was so, they said, "It must be his angel."

In this story, the word "angel" seems to be used synonymously with "spirit". In the time of Jesus and the early church, belief among Jews that humans possessed a non-corporeal spirit was the norm. I don't see any teaching in the NT which contravenes this prevailing view.