Baptism

[Guest]

I also appreciate Paidion's consistency in his position.

The thing that's always cracked me up with folks who don't believe baptism actual "accomplishes" something, is that they then insist on matter and method (using water, dunking, and using the Trinitarian formula).

"Baptism doesn't accomplish anything...it's just a symbol. BUT YOU HAVE TO DUNK in order to not accomplish anything. It's just the proper method for accomplishing nothing. Gotta be consistent with completely symbolic stuff."

If it accomplishes something, it makes sense to insist on method and matter.

[Guest]

how does this square with idea of "losing" one's salvation, or walking away from the faith? in other words, can a person who is baptized "undo" the "thing" that happens during baptism?

We became disciples of Christ by "foraking all and following" Him. This includes sealing our commitment with baptism. Nothing external can undo our regeneration. "Neither life, nor death, nor principalities, nor powers, etc. can separate us from the love of Christ."

However, if we choose to take our lives back into our own hands, and live for self again, the thing is undone, and we will have to be corrected, perhaps for many ages, in Gehenna.

Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me, and no one is able to pluck them out of my hand." The operative phrase here is "they follow me." As long as we follow Him we are safe. But if we cease to follow Him, we may have to undergo the purifying fires of Gehenna.

one other question-- it may sound silly but my intent is not to be. Suppose a person is somewhere where there is not a large amt of water available (let's say antarctica) and they become a christian. could the person be baptized in a snow bank? or perhaps in the sahara desert- could a person be covered and then uncovered with sand? is water as the medium essential in your view?

Your question is not at all silly, and needs to be asked.

An early Christian writing called, "The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" states to baptize in running water. But if no running water is available, then still water. If no still water is available, then pour water upon the head."

I think that if the intent to be baptized is there, and conditions are such that it is not physically possible to be immersed in water, then the Lord accepts the person as fully as if he were baptized. For example, some people become disciples in their old age where their health does not allow them to be immersed. Then there's that oft-mentioned case of the repentant thief on the cross. He didn't have the opportunity to be baptized, but he would have if he could have.

My guess is that the ones who may be in danger are those who know they should be baptized, but refuse to do so. Anyone who has truly submitted to the authority of Christ, would not be in that position.