The Law written on our hearts

[Guest]

Todd,
I think I'm understanding you now, I just don't see how it must logically follow that since God overlooked times of ignorance that that means now everyone recieves the law written on thier hearts. In other words, it could just be about those who actually repent and recieve the Holy Spirit and enter into a covenant relationship with God by faith. It it these that recieve the law written on their hearts.

I realize that the common understanding is that only those who are followers of Christ have the Law written on their hearts. The purpose of this thread was to attempt to communicate a different way to look at it - one that is entirely possible (to me anyway) and, if I am correct, leads to different conclusions on many areas of doctrine. First, I did not say that the reason everyone now has the law written in their hearts was because God overlooked times of ignorance. I attributed that to Jeremiah's prophecy in Chapter 31. It was he who said that "everyone" would know him and that it would no longer be necessary to teach anyone. If you take this for what it says then my conclusion makes sense.

There is another scripture in Isaiah 11:1-9 that speaks of a time when everyone will have this knowledge. The last statement says the following:

For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea.

I realize that most people apply this scripture differently, but it is possible that it could be reinforcing my argument.

But, for me, the following is the clincher. It comes from John 5:24-29. Most people equate this passage with the resurrection at the second coming of Christ, but if you look closely (as I will attempt to show) a different conclusion can be drawn.

John 5:24-25
24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

In these first two verses Jesus says that he who hears and believes passes from death to life. In other words, they are awakened from a life that was dead in the graveyard of sin to a new life in Christ. This is a spiritual resurrection - hear and believe (or obey) and awake to a new life. This is the context here - spiritual resurrection, not physical resurrection.

John 5:28-29
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Jesus continues to say that an "hour" is coming in which all those who are "dead" in the graveyard of sin will hear his voice and be awakened. Those who obey will be rewarded and those who do not will be convicted (or punished). I believe this is referring to what happened on the Day of Pentecost when His Spirit was poured out on ALL flesh and everyone heard his voice - and had the law written on their heart. It is not talking about those who are physically dead, it was talking about those who are spiritually dead in the graveyard of sin.

In the first two verses (24-25) only some of the dead (in sin) hear his voice. These are the ones who hear him speak during his earthly ministry before his death. But in the last two verses (28-29) ALL of the dead (in sin) hear his voice. These are everone else in the world who are awakened in their heart to what is truely right and have to choose to obey and be rewarded or disobey and be punished. This is what happened on the Day of Pentecost.

I will point out again though that it was the Holy Spirit that was poured out at Pentacost. Peter quoted the OT and said this is what was predicted, the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. Yet we know from other letters like Romans 8 that not all have the Spirit of God.

It could be possible that "receiving" the Spirit means that we "hear" the law that is already written on our hearts and obey. In doing so we "receive" the Spirit.

I do agree that God's wrath is being poured out now in people's lives. I think that's what Paul is saying in Romans 1.

I'm glad we aren't totally out of sync. I do really appreciate you taking the time to try to understand what I am saying. God bless you, Sean.

Todd

[Guest]

assuming you are correct though, that all flesh had the law of god written on their hearts at pentecost, what good does this do them, if salvation is a separate event (as you stated earlier)?

TK

TK,

I never answered this question. It is a good one. To answer it I must first ask another question. What is salvation?.....from what are we saved? I believe that we are saved from the consequences of our sins. And what are these consequences? The first consequence is the reign of death. Death reigned from Adam until Christ because all had sinned. But Christ has now conquered death and will destroy it at his second coming. In this sense he is the Savior of the World because all will be resurrected when He returns. The second consequence of sin is the condemnation of the soul that occurs during our lifetime when we are overcome by sin. This is what I have been trying to point out in this thead. Now that everyone has the law written on their hearts they suffer anguish and tribulation when they don't obey it. This is God's wrath upon the disobedient and he calls us to repent.

So, to summarize, the writing of the Law of God upon the heart of mankind on the Day of Pentecost was done to remove the ignorance of mankind to what is truely right in God's eyes. Those who choose to disobey this law will suffer in their soul during their lifetime as long as they choose not to repent. This is what Christ meant by the word "perish" in John 3:16. On the other hand, those who "believe," and become disciples, train themselves to be sensitive and obedient to God's law and are spiritually rewarded in their lifetime with love, joy, peace and rest. This is what is meant by "eternal life."

Todd

[Guest]

todd wrote:

So, to summarize, the writing of the Law of God upon the heart of mankind on the Day of Pentecost was done to remove the ignorance of mankind to what is truely right in God's eyes. Those who choose to disobey this law will suffer in their soul during their lifetime as long as they choose not to repent. This is what Christ meant by the word "perish" in John 3:16.

you have mentioned this in other threads, and i simply am not convinced of the truth of what you claim about the "disobedient", namely that they suffer in their soul during their lifetime. do you mean literal suffering? or only figurative? if you mean literal suffering, then i simply beg to differ- i know very few disobedient persons who are suffering in their souls. in fact, quite the opposite is true. sin is fun! otherwise, no one would sin.

TK

[Guest]

you have mentioned this in other threads, and i simply am not convinced of the truth of what you claim about the "disobedient", namely that they suffer in their soul during their lifetime. do you mean literal suffering? or only figurative? if you mean literal suffering, then i simply beg to differ- i know very few disobedient persons who are suffering in their souls. in fact, quite the opposite is true. sin is fun! otherwise, no one would sin.

TK

TK,

Rom 1:29-31
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

I would not describe any of these sinful activities as "fun." People sin when they are drawn to it through fleshly lusts and selfishness.

It was Paul that stated in this same chapter that God's wrath is poured out on these people.

Rom 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

He continues this thought in the next chapter and says,...

Rom 2:8-9
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

I do not believe he is referring to something that won't happen until the return of Christ. It is happening now. We have all felt guilt and shame when we have sinned. This is the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Those who are immersed in sin are "given over to a depraved mind" (Rom 1:28 ). It is from this that Christ wants to save us.

Todd