The Narrow Path Ministries

Paidion wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:08 pm

Dwight wrote:In John 1 , John tells us that the Word, as the second person of the Trinity, existed, even before Creation, with God, and in fact, was God

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John 1:1 says NOTHING about the Word being "the second person of the Trinity".
Yes, He existed with God even before creation. For God begat Him as the first of His acts.
John 1 does not state that He was God, but rather that He was "God stuff", that is, that He was divine—the divine Son of God.

In fact it doesn't even say that the WORD is the same as the Son. The WORD became enfleshed in Jesus (this is similar in some ways to saying that God's plans have been made manifest). So, whatever the WORD was, the WORD wasn't Jesus before creation. If anything, it is the WORD that is the second person of the Trinity, but I don't think you can prove personality of the WORD from Scripture (personification is not the same as personhood).

Darin wrote:...but I don't think you can prove personality of the WORD from Scripture (personification is not the same as personhood).

How about John 1:3 [still referring to the WORD (the expression of God)]?

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Is the WORD not referred to as "him" in this sentence?

Paidion wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:55 pm

Darin wrote:...but I don't think you can prove personality of the WORD from Scripture (personification is not the same as personhood).

How about John 1:3 [still referring to the WORD (the expression of God)]?

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Is the WORD not referred to as "him" in this sentence?

Again, personification does not equate to personality. Consider how Sophia/Wisdom is spoken of in Proverbs 8.

darinhouston wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:57 pm

Paidion wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:59 am

Biblical Evidence of the Trinity:

ZER0
ZERO
ZERO

How's that for a trinity?

I think it's fair to say that both are philosophical attempts to square/synthesize what people infer from various texts (and other theories and presuppositions). Neither are proven or even declared by Scripture alone.

Dwight -Jesus said: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in THE NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
How's that for THE TRINITY? And these are Jesus' words. I don't know how it could be more clear. We are baptizing in the name of 3 persons, and yet it is called ONE NAME. Jesus did NOT say, "In the name of the Father and in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit." Why? Because it is the SAME name. IN FACT, Philip, and Peter, in obedience to this command, baptized new converts in the name of Jesus, without a reference to the Father or the Holy Spirit. Apparently, in their minds, baptizing in the name of Jesus IS THE SAME AS baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:16; Acts 10:48 Why? Apparently JESUS IS THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!

Dwight - This is made even more clear in John 17:11 - where Jesus prays: "Father, keep them in Your name, (the name) which you have given Me ..." The Father's name is the same as the name which He gave to Jesus. Then Jesus repeats this in verse 12 - "While I was with them, I was keeping them in YOUR NAME which you have given Me; ..."

Dwight -Jesus said: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in THE NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
How's that for THE TRINITY? And these are Jesus' words. I don't know how it could be more clear. We are baptizing in the name of 3 persons, and yet it is called ONE NAME. Jesus did NOT say, "In the name of the Father and in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit." Why? Because it is the SAME name.

No, that does not follow. I could say, "I loved the personality of my mother and of my father". In doing so, I would NOT mean that though they were two persons, they had the same personality.

So why would Philip and Peter baptize only in the name of Jesus, when Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit? Also, why would Jesus mention the three Persons together like that? It's like He is saying that the three belong together as one unit.

Have you ever heard of the "Jesus Only" movement?

The "Jesus Only" movement, also known as Oneness Pentecostalism or oneness theology, teaches that there is only one God, but denies the tri-unity of God. In other words, oneness theology does not recognize the distinct persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It has various forms—some see Jesus Christ as the one God, who sometimes manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit. The core doctrine of Oneness Pentecostal / Jesus Only is that Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the Spirit. There is one God who reveals Himself in different "modes."

This movement is also known as "Modalism".

Hi Paidion,

Dwight wrote:

So why would Philip and Peter baptize only in the name of Jesus, when Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit? Also, why would Jesus mention the three Persons together like that? It's like He is saying that the three belong together as one unit.

I'm missing your point. Your response concerned modalism, do you think Luke had modalism in mind when he wrote of being baptized in Jesus name?

My "point" is that the Trinitarian view is not the only view concerning "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". Proponents of Modalism explain "the Three" in a very different way.

I no longer believe that the "word" consisting of 189,819 characters is a word at all. I suspect it's someone's invention.

I searched the internet for the longest known English word and found the following:

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis (45 letters), the meaning of which is:

Pneumoconiosis caused by inhalation of very fine silicate or quartz dust.