The Narrow Path Ministries

Hey everyone

For those of you who don't know, I'm an ordained minister in the Wesleyan Church (WC). The WC does not require it's ministers to have a Master's Degree (as some denominations do), but it is becoming more and more common for WC's to seek out minister's with a Master's Degree.

Personally, I don't value degrees very much. I have the required BA in Religion degree from a 4 year Bible College, but I can honestly say I've learned far more in independent study these past 4 years in ministry than I did in the 4 years of college (not that it was a bad school, I just seem to get more done when I can pursue the truths I'm most interested in finding).

But now a local Wesleyan College (Houghton) is going to be offering a Master's in Theology program. I'm wondering if I should do it. I got some initial information and as a Wesleyan minister I get 20% off. The cost for the Master's program would be just under $16,000. I could spread it out over 5 years at the most. I currently have no debt, but I only have a few thousand dollars savings. I make about $23,000/year.

So, in summary, I don't personally value the degree, but it probably wouldn't hurt and this might be the best opportunity to do it as I could continue ministering at our church while earning the degree.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

In Christ,
matthew

Accomplishing that will open doors for you to minister to those in the church with a religious attitude. You know, those that focus on the externals. It's sad but true, that there will be that crowd that won't recieve you because you are not "qualified" to their satisfaction. But, completing your masters degree will put you on a platform to be a channel of grace and life towards them. That's definately a plus to consider.

Hey Mattrose,

I'll give you my opinions, for whatever they're worth (not much)

mattrose wrote:Hey everyone

For those of you who don't know, I'm an ordained minister in the Wesleyan Church (WC). The WC does not require it's ministers to have a Master's Degree (as some denominations do), but it is becoming more and more common for WC's to seek out minister's with a Master's Degree.

This makes it sound as though it might be a good idea to go ahead and get a master's degree now. It might make things easier in the future if your denomination continues this trend.

Personally, I don't value degrees very much. I have the required BA in Religion degree from a 4 year Bible College, but I can honestly say I've learned far more in independent study these past 4 years in ministry than I did in the 4 years of college (not that it was a bad school, I just seem to get more done when I can pursue the truths I'm most interested in finding).

I agree with you about learning better when your interest level is high; but it's not like you won't learn anything during your time spent working on the degree.

But now a local Wesleyan College (Houghton) is going to be offering a Master's in Theology program. I'm wondering if I should do it. I got some initial information and as a Wesleyan minister I get 20% off. The cost for the Master's program would be just under $16,000. I could spread it out over 5 years at the most. I currently have no debt, but I only have a few thousand dollars savings. I make about $23,000/year.

Well, one thing for sure, it's not going to get any cheaper as the years go by. However, if you are planning on getting married, would it bother you to have this debt? Would you wait until it's paid off?

So, in summary, I don't personally value the degree, but it probably wouldn't hurt and this might be the best opportunity to do it as I could continue ministering at our church while earning the degree.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

In Christ,
matthew

Well, hmm...I'd probably go ahead and start it anyway. But that's just my opinion, and it's a lot of work and money, so think it over carefully and prayerfully.

Some questions come to mind:

1. Do you plan to stay with the Wesleyan denomination throughout your time as a pastor?

2. Do you plan to personally pastor a congregation for the next 40 years or do you plan to one day seek a post as a district superintendent, for example?

3. Will the program teach you anything about the Bible or is the emphasis on denomination management?

4. If you invest the $16,000 into this, will you in some way be able to double that amount and be called a wise and faithful servant? I think we know each other well enough to know that I'm not suggesting that you sow seeds to get a reward when I say that.

5. Don't you love it when people old enough to be your father won't answer your questions directly? My father used to do this to me and I was always SO frustrated when he'd do it. Now I know he was making me think my way through it. He just needed to nudge a little here and bump a little there. Consider yourself bumped.

livingink

Hello Matt, long time no post,:)

When I was in the Navy as a Neuro-Psychiatric Technician (aka, Mental Health Tech); my experience and training was rated at a Master's level in Psychology by the Veteran's Administration. However, since I don't have "the piece of paper" (a degree), I'm not eligible to be a Mental Health Tech in my state, Ohio. Not even a "the guys in the white jackets"....

Also, I dropped out of a Bible college 11 hours short of a B.A. in theology a long time ago...and have studied the Bible & Theology an average of at least 4 hours a day for years...but "no piece of paper" (again).

If I could afford it, I'd go back to college. And if I took either psychology or theology---my personal experience and learning would probably make things relatively easy (good grades wouldn't be a great chore, I don't think).

As things have gone for me since I didn't finish my B.A., I've been working in factories...and just got laid off today. (If you have a B.A. in anything it automatically qualifies you for "white collar jobs" in secular society). A few months ago I learned I could have been a local social worker assistant had I gotten my degree, even in theology!

You wrote:Personally, I don't value degrees very much. I have the required BA in Religion degree from a 4 year Bible College, but I can honestly say I've learned far more in independent study these past 4 years in ministry than I did in the 4 years of college (not that it was a bad school, I just seem to get more done when I can pursue the truths I'm most interested in finding).

I see what you are saying and don't think the Bible teaches we have to have theology degrees to be in the ministry!

I know from my Bible college training...that subjects I once thought were "weird and boring" at the time (like Calvinism in Church History) have turned out to be really valuable...20 some odd years later!

I equally don't think the Bible is 'against' formal theological education. If anyone asked me if they should go to seminary, I'd advise them to go if they are required to by their denomination (otherwise, they are in the wrong denomination)!

Matt, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say,
Later in life I doubt you'd regret going! I think you'd be very glad you did!

True, degrees are "impressive" and we're called to live a life of humility. But in getting another degree you will have learned so much more; being equipped to answer the challenges you and your 'parishoners' face. You'll be exposed to things you may have never thought about....

Go for it, Matt!
Rick

P.S. Could you briefly describe the curriculum (majors), etc.? go4it!

SoaringEagle said...

there will be that crowd that won't recieve you because you are not "qualified" to their satisfaction. But, completing your masters degree will put you on a platform to be a channel of grace and life towards them. That's definately a plus to consider.

Yes, I agree that this could possibly open up more ministry opportunities amongst new groups of people.

MichelleM said...

However, if you are planning on getting married, would it bother you to have this debt? Would you wait until it's paid off?

Ideally I would try to not generate any debt while obtaining the degree. The degree costs $20,000 minus $4,000 since I'm a Wesleyan minister (20% off). Additionally, I am quite sure my church would be more than willing to pay for some of it (they actual have this type of thing as a budget line item). I am thinking they'd be willing to pay at least $500/year, but more like $1000/year. But I'll be conservative and guess $500/year for now. That's another $2500 off dropping the total to $13,500 or $2,700/year or $225/month. Similar to a car payment I suppose. And my car is paid for and will probably last at least another 5 years.

LivingLink said...

1. Do you plan to stay with the Wesleyan denomination throughout your time as a pastor?

2. Do you plan to personally pastor a congregation for the next 40 years or do you plan to one day seek a post as a district superintendent, for example?

3. Will the program teach you anything about the Bible or is the emphasis on denomination management?

4. If you invest the $16,000 into this, will you in some way be able to double that amount and be called a wise and faithful servant? I think we know each other well enough to know that I'm not suggesting that you sow seeds to get a reward when I say that.

5. Don't you love it when people old enough to be your father won't answer your questions directly? My father used to do this to me and I was always SO frustrated when he'd do it. Now I know he was making me think my way through it. He just needed to nudge a little here and bump a little there. Consider yourself bumped.

1. Yes, most likely.
2. I currently have no desire to be anything other than a pastor. I don't even care if I'm a 'senior' pastor (though I am open to that). My main desire is to be in a role where I can teach about 5 times per week (which I'm currently doing).
3. It's mostly theology, not denominational stuff.
4. In practice, yes, Wesleyan churches tend to pay more for pastors with higher degrees.
5. Thanks for the questions. I wasn't looking so much for a direct 'yes' or 'no' response anyways. I just like to think it through from various angles

RickC said...

Later in life I doubt you'd regret going! I think you'd be very glad you did!

True, degrees are "impressive" and we're called to live a life of humility. But in getting another degree you will have learned so much more; being equipped to answer the challenges you and your 'parishoners' face. You'll be exposed to things you may have never thought about....

Go for it, Matt!
Rick

P.S. Could you briefly describe the curriculum (majors), etc.? go4it!

I certainly 'hope' it'd be a great learning experience. i suppose part of my reluctance comes from the fact that I've grown so much more SINCE college than I did while IN college. The difference here would be I'll still be in ministry throughout the time earning the degree. Preparing to teach things is the best way to learn that I've ever come across. The other part of my reluctance is from knowing that some of my friends that went on to seminary seem to have developed some pride, so I'm not sure if the rewards are much greater than the risks.

As for the curriculum. I would have to choose 16 classes. Looking at the list, these would probably be my choices.

(6 core courses)
Biblical Hermeneutics
Constructive Theology
Church History
Missional Ecclesiology
The Christian Spiritual Life
Theology, Faith, and Culture

(6 bible/theology courses)
Biblical Archeology;
New Testament Theology;
The Gospel of John;
History of the American Church;
Contours of Wesleyan Theology;
Contemporary Theology

(4 special elective courses)
Parish Ministry
Leading Congregations;
Spiritual Direction;
Pastoral Counseling;

Thanks again for all who commented

1. Yes, most likely.
2. I currently have no desire to be anything other than a pastor. I don't even care if I'm a 'senior' pastor (though I am open to that). My main desire is to be in a role where I can teach about 5 times per week (which I'm currently doing).
3. It's mostly theology, not denominational stuff.
4. In practice, yes, Wesleyan churches tend to pay more for pastors with higher degrees.
5. Thanks for the questions. I wasn't looking so much for a direct 'yes' or 'no' response anyways. I just like to think it through from various angles



Based on everything you said, i would go for it Matt if i were in your shoes.

Well... there's got to be somebody who offers advice to the contrary.

I say you don't need it, and may be a waste of valuable time during which you could accomplish much more continuing to minister to those in need of ministry.

I am praying Mattrose that the Lord will show you clearly what to do
regarding returing to school. I have listened too many times in
my life to others that have given me wrong direction. I am positive the intentions were good but not the will of God. So, I say ask people you
trust to pray and see just what God will open. Be patient because
as you know, God's timing is sometimes different. I do say, " AMEN"
to Rick.

God Bless,

'Looks like a great list of courses...I vote: StillGo4It!