Gregg vs. Keller?
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:50 pm
Does anyone know when will the Gregg VS. Keller videos be up to view?
Wow, so many words! Were you, I don't know...trying to convince us?dorianleigh wrote:I still don't understand??? Where in Scripture does it speak of "opposing sides of believers?" In fact, I encountered another verse in II Corin. 12:20 which states: 20For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
This verse seems to be in alignment with Romans 1:29. Is there any Scripture which admonishes us to publically debate? Did Jesus or Paul hold public debates? Proverbs 25:9 tells us to debate with our neighbor in private.
I don't think I've ever read anything in Scripture which tells us to be "skilled debaters", but rather verses which tell us, "not by might, nor power but by MY Spirit, and God uses the foolish (unskilled) to confound the wise (skilled). My Bible also tells me that those who try to be first, will be last. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled. My interpretation of that is if we want to win, we need to lose.
I'm not sure what the qualifications of an elder have to do with two believers holding a public debate. This verse doesn't even say that an elder should "debate."
In terms of "debating the truth", isn't Jesus the truth? Isn't the Holy Spirit referred to as the spirit of truth? If so, how can two believers "serve the interests of truth, by competing and arguing? Where in Scripture are we told that "debating" is the way to the truth? How did Jesus get to the truth? Didn't he speak the truth in love? Didn't He speak in parables so people could understand? Didn't He also give people the freedom to walk away after sharing the truth with them? (remember the rich young ruler?) Or did He hold a public debate and argue his point in order to prove them wrong? Isn't the truth supposed to set us free, not cause arguments?
With regard to the statement, "the truth can seldom be served without robust debate against false views", where is that in the Bible? If that strong statement were true, wouldn't it be in Scripture, rather than Scripture continually admonishing us not to debate?
In terms of "false views", who are we to decide that another believer has "false views?" Isn't that God's job as He knows the heart and we each have a personal relationship with our savior who speaks to each of us through the Scripture? I've been in a room with 10 other believers, studied one Scripture and had 10 different perspectives of what the Holy Spirit was saying through that Scripture. Does that mean that all 9 of the views different from mine are false? Even in a public classroom, there are many different perspectives when a secular book is read as to what it is saying.
When we add the Holy Spirit speaking to each of us in a personal way, as He knows our relationship history, wounds, and life experiences meets each of us where we are at. So, based upon that, should I decide that anyone who interprets Scripture differently than I do has false views and ask them for a public debate? How is that productive and edifying in any way? We are all wrong in some areas and that can be proven as we have changed in our views as we have grown. Did the power of the Holy Spirit open our spiritual eyes, or did someone pound us over the head with their opinion? Have you ever tried to argue with someone whom God had blinded their spiritual eyes? I have, and the Lord finally told me, " if this person were physically blind would you be arguing with them to get them to see what you see?" Of course I replied, "no" and He said, then why do you think your arguing is going to open their spiritual eyes? Jesus IS the truth and only He has the power and ability to remove blindness.
I would ask those who participate in debates if they ever practice this behavior in order to come around to the other person's perspective and have admitted publically doing so, therefore "losing" in order to win?
I believe that we are called to "fellowship", rather than debate, as we lovingly receive other viewpoints with an open heart to receive the truth as they see it. Then we can take it to the Lord and ask HIM to show us how the truth applies to our lives. In the past when I've had beliefs that I later grew to see were off track, I can see why the Lord allowed me at that time to be deceived. I simply wasn't ready for the truth and being loved in the midst of what I believed rather than someone trying to debate me away from that belief, proved to be hugely productive. We are called to plant seeds and walk away allowing someone else to come alongside and water them.
Jesus and Paul whom we are to imitate, reached the hearts of multitudes by speaking the truth in love and had no problem getting to the truth, without robustly debating with them. When a person is being used by the Lord to speak the truth, hearts are changed without argument, strife or competition. They'll know we are Christians by our love, not our skills in debating. How about leaving that to the politicians??? Jesus doesn't need our skills, we need His truth. We can actually hinder the work of the Holy Spirit when our human effort gets in the way.
Who knows what the Holy Spirit could have done for the church in the fourth century, if "formal debaters" would have stepped aside and let the Spirit of God move. "Not by might (skills), nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord."