The Future: Open or Closed?

Discuss topics raised by callers on the radio program
User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2995
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: The Future: Open or Closed?

Post by Homer » Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:39 am

Heard this explanation many years ago:
E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.

Cock-crow.

The Hebrews divided the night into four watches: 1, The “beginning of the watches” or “even” (Lam. ii. 19); 2, “The middle watch” or “midnight” (Judg. vii. 19); 3, “The cock-crowing;” 4, “The morning watch” or “dawning” (Exod. xiv. 24). 1
“Ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cock-crowing, or in the morning.”—Mark xiii. 35.

The Romans divided the night into sixteen parts, each one hour and a - half, beginning at midnight. The third of these divisions (3 a.m.) they called gallicinium, the time when cocks begin to crow; the next was conticinium, when they ceased to crow; and fifth was diluculum, dawn. 2
Probably the Romans sounded the hour on a trumpet (bugle) three times, and if so it would explain the diversity of the Gospels: “Before the cock crow” (John xiii. 38, Luke xxii. 34, and Matt. xxvi. 34); but “Before the cock crow twice” (Mark xiv. 30)—that is, before the “bugle” has finished sounding.

User avatar
Suzana
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:09 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Future: Open or Closed?

Post by Suzana » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:21 am

Paidion wrote:...
Mark 14:30 And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, this very night, before the cock crows twice, you will deny me three times."
...The gospels were written long after this event occurred. It seems that Matthew and Peter (who told Mark) remembered the words differently.

Now both remembered that Peter had denied Christ three times, and so both "remembered" that Christ had said "three times". But had He? Suppose Christ had actually said, "Before the cock crows you will deny me." If so, this could have been a prediction rather than knowledge. Christ knew the character of Peter, since Peter was with Him as his disciple for a long time. Christ knew his impulsiveness. Christ knew he had a mind for self-preservation. Christ could very well have made such a prediction whose fulfillment was likely.
Wouldn’t it be rather risking His credibility for Jesus to make such a categorical statement “Assuredly (or Truly) I say to you…” if there was any chance that the ‘prediction,’ though likely might not actually come to pass?

Why should Jesus think (if He did not have that specific knowledge revealed), that Peter would follow him all the way into the high priests’?

Mar 14:27 And Jesus said to them, All of you will be offended because of Me this night. For it is written, "I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered."

Surely it would be more natural to assume all the disciples would go off together as soon as Jesus was arrested. And even if He thought that Peter, being impulsive may follow Him, Jesus wouldn’t know for sure, & how could He possibly know that anyone would pay Peter any attention or challenge him in any way, and so force his denial?

And if Peter was the only one of the disciples to be present at the high priests’, he must have been the one to tell the others about his own denial; surely he would have remembered the particulars very well, perhaps even remarked on the fact that it happened three times just like Jesus said it would - and if Peter himself was the one to tell Mark as Paidion states, (?at a later date than telling all the others), perhaps that may also have bearing on the extra detail recorded in that gospel.
Suzana
_________________________
If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

Post Reply

Return to “Radio Program Topics”