Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

[seer]

On Wed. show Steve talked about the authority of the state to punish evil doers. To punish things worthy of death. So if a state instituted the death penalty for homosexual acts would that be just or unjust?

[schoel]

Is the assumption of homosexual acts being worthy of death based on the OT passage condemning it for the Jews?

[Allyn]

Is there anything in the NT requiring that a government must put to death any person for anything? Governments are free to make their laws and enforce them but does the NT teach that a death penalty is required?

What we find for the Church to do under certain circumstances is to admonish and/or disfellowship. The world does what the world does, but such things are not to be found in the church.

[seer]

Is the assumption of homosexual acts being worthy of death based on the OT passage condemning it for the Jews?

Yes and it seems to be implied in Romans one. But murder also was worthy of death in the OT. Does that mean that it isn't now? Or would it be unjust to apply it in society today?

[steve]

In my opinion, it is not the church's responsibility to force the government to do what is right, though the church, through its preaching or counseling of rulers (Acts 24:24-25), may have a role in educating lawmakers concerning God's standards of justice, which influence may trickle down to the adoption of more-just legislation. It may even include proclamation before rulers as to the justice of capital punishment (Acts 25:11).

There are many activities that were capital crimes in Old Testament Israel that were not capital crimes in pagan Rome. The Christians did not seek to impose the Jewish code upon the Roman State. This may, however, be only because they lacked opportunity...it is hard to say.

There can be no doubt that homosexuality, adultery, kidnapping, and parent-abuse were all ranked with murder as capital crimes in the law of Moses. Paul tells us that the law was "holy, just and good" (Rom.7:12). It can hardly be objectionable for any nation to adopt a criminal code that is "just and good."

On the other hand, that code also placed the death penalty on such violations of religion as blasphemy and sabbath-breaking. One could hardly expect secular and pluralistic societies to adopt these religious laws that were specific to the covenant God had made with Israel.

It seems that the secular state is not required to enforce private morality, per se, but is to punish those whose behavior poses a threat to the society and to innocent citizenry. Whether adultery and homosexual activity ought still to be punishable by criminal penalties today would depend upon whether these activities are regarded as threatening the security and stability of society as much as do crimes like murder and kidnapping. I, for one, do believe that adultery is a criminal breach of contract, and should be prosecuted as such.

Homosexuality, on the other hand, might be regarded by many as a "victimless crime." Those innocent victims (e.g. women and children) who perished in the destruction of Sodom might take a different view.

[Allyn]

Ray Boltz has now come out of the closet and so this subject hits closer to the Christian world of music.
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliv ... comes.html

[seer]

Ray Boltz has now come out of the closet and so this subject hits closer to the Christian world of music.
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliv ... comes.html

Sad really - he said God "made him that way." Well I guess God made the child molester abnd rapist that way to.

[kaufmannphillips]

Steve wrote:
In my opinion, it is not the church's responsibility to force the government to do what is right, though the church, through its preaching or counseling of rulers (Acts 24:24-25), may have a role in educating lawmakers concerning God's standards of justice, which influence may trickle down to the adoption of more-just legislation. It may even include proclamation before rulers as to the justice of capital punishment (Acts 25:11).

In the United States, members of the church have the opportunity to be lawmakers, whether extensively as office-holders or to a more limited extent as voters. What responsibility do church members have to pursue such opportunities in accordance with the paradigms of G-d?

[RND]

On Wed. show Steve talked about the authority of the state to punish evil doers. To punish things worthy of death. So if a state instituted the death penalty for homosexual acts would that be just or unjust?

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

[steve]

I don't know exactly how to define the Christian's role in influencing or drafting legislation. It may be seen as a stewardship given to us, or, alternatively, as a temptation presented to us. I think it may be a little of both. The balance must be found by the individual who is led by the Holy Spirit to do his own part, as it fits into the will of God for him.

As for the statement of Jesus about stoning or not stoning the woman, I am not sure that it alone can answer the knotty questions associated with criminal justice. Paul was not opposed, in principle, to capital punishment (Acts 25:11), and neither he nor Jesus seemed to make any attempt to influence the criminal justice systems (much ess abolish them) in their respective societies. In my opinion, Jesus (Luke 12:13-14) and Paul (1 Cor.5:12-13) did their best not to become judges in civil or criminal matters outside the affairs of the church, and not to involve the government in settling the disputes within the church (Matt.18:17/ 1 Cor.6:1). But there is not indication that either of them thought the state should dismantle all legal institutions, law courts and penalties for criminals.

If Jesus had uttered these words (John 8:7) in addressing Pilate or Herod, we might think that He was seeking to reform the Roman system of criminal penalties, but He was speaking to Jews about their proper response to a religio-moral issue in their Torah. The closest parallel situation for us might be the application of discipline on some moral infraction in the church, possibly where the sinner has already shown signs of genuine remorse.

Thus, I think the famous statement from the Lord, in John 8:7, leaves essentially untouched the question of the state's use of prisons, fines, or the sword to redress criminal behavior.