Baptism question 4/29/2020

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Darrell
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:01 pm

Baptism question 4/29/2020

Post by Darrell » Fri May 01, 2020 9:37 am

Greetings in Christ Jesus to All,

Steve I very much appreciate your teachings and always count it a blessing when I can listen to your broadcast. On 4/29 beginning around minute 21 you answered the question whether baptism was essential or not regarding salvation. Some of the points you made were:
1. The early church never recognized anyone as a christian unless they were baptized.
2. The early church never knew an unbaptized believer, it was absolutely part of the conversion experience (Acts 3:19?).
3. Repentance and baptism were not optional (Acts 2:38?).
4. Baptism isn't a work, it is something that is administered to you.
5. Baptism should never be considered to be optional, it never was in the Bible.
Steve I agree with all your statements.

My questions are:
1. What are your thoughts on 1st Peter 3:20-21?
2. Isn't it through baptism that we baptized into Christ and become partakers in the death and resurrection, becoming a new creation in Him(Rom. 6)?
3.The caller asked if repentance was a work or a state of mind. Your thoughts were that it was a state or change of mind and there were works worthy of repentance(Eph 2:10?). Am i correct in concluding that repentance isn't just a state or change of mind but it is a change of mind coupled to a change in behavior, is there repentance without a change in behavior?

Lastly the thief on the cross was brought up, that he wasn't baptized and unable to be baptized. How do we know? Doesn't that seem like an assumption to support a doctrinal preference? (no offence intended) Couldn't he have been one of the early followers of Jesus (baptized disciples) who stopped following Him - John 6:66? What I've always found fascinating about the thief on the cross is that he seemed to have a greater insight, a more complete understanding of the ministry of Jesus than even that of the Apostles. "Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom" are very strange words for one dying man to say to another. The Apostles were still confused about the Kingdom at that time and didn't seem to grasp the coming Resurrection but not the thief, he knew death was not the end and that the Kingdom transcended this mortal realm. It seems like his knowledge and faith was way beyond that of the Apostles. What are your thoughts?

Blessings in Christ -d
Eph. 4:2-3

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Homer
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Re: Baptism question 4/29/2020

Post by Homer » Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am

Hi Darrell,

Another thought re the thief on the cross is that he had no opportunity to be baptized into Christ's death as Jesus had yet to die:

Romans 6:3-6 New American Standard Bible

3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;


I do not think that God requires the impossible of those who are intent on following Jesus.

Be blessed, Homer

Darrell
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:01 pm

Re: Baptism question 4/29/2020

Post by Darrell » Thu May 07, 2020 10:15 am

Greetings Homer,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

To the best of my knowledge the scriptures are silent regarding the specific baptism of each of the Apostles with the exception of the Apostle Paul (Acts 9:17-18). Because of this, for better or worse it has been my assumption that the Apostles and those gathered with them in the upper room (Acts 1:12-15) were among those who were baptized by the authority of Jesus during His earthly ministry (John 3:22 - 4:2). If this is the case, do you think the Apostles and those gathered with them (about 120) were baptized again on the Day of Pentecost?

Thanks again for your thoughts and may you be blessed as well. - d
Eph. 4:2-3

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Homer
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Baptism question 4/29/2020

Post by Homer » Thu May 07, 2020 10:59 am

Hi Darrell,

Here is an excellent discussion of the subject by Jack Cottrell:

http://jackcottrell.com/notes/when-were ... -baptized/

Cottrell has written some very good books, especially his two volume commentary on Romans.

Homer

Darrell
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:01 pm

Re: Baptism question 4/29/2020

Post by Darrell » Fri May 08, 2020 8:48 am

Greetings Homer,

Thank you for the link. I've visited Bro Cottrell's website many times and have read that particular Q&A before. Although I don't have his commentary on Romans I do own a couple of his books and have found them edifying.

Blessings - d
Eph. 4:2-3

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