Examples of "tounges"

[jpat1975]

What do you think of this example of tongues? I've skipped ahead to the end of the service. I've been in this particular group before and really was a bit skeptical that this wasn't just repeated patterns. This group is originally from Brazil, and thus you don't hear the same familiar vocal patterns (Shandala, etc), that you might here in North America. The words spoken during the interpretation are most vague and generic. I see no value in this display.

https://youtu.be/WAN8Ess-tFM?list=PLDZ8 ... ngV&t=2198

No idea what "tongues" is supposed to be, but it's in the bible, and as a Christian I think folks have uttered it in the past. Today, I would think those who actually are not seeking attention would not be caught on film or audio speaking it. I just don't see the point of the babbling part, other than it being a "sign" that something is going on. I'm pretty sure any "tounges" you hear with the word "SHANDALA" and "OH DOH ROW" with Spanish-style rolled Rrrrs is fake. It's mostly people copying each other and not wanting to appear less spiritual under an tacit peer pressure to perform. I think it's a biblical concept, but it's not explained clearly enough in the bible to know for sure. Here is an actual phonetic transcript of one example I attempted to transcribe from a recording back when I was researching this personally (I can email you the audio if you want). A lot of these things sound very generic. This is from a group out of Brazil in one of it's North American groups, and so you hear a completely different style (no "shadala"'s, etc) - but I find a lot of folks within the larger group seeming like they're copying one another. Even if they were all faking, and I would imagine most were, it doesn't mean I stop believing the bible, or even about spiritual gifts. It simply means, folks can even fool themselves into believing they are being used in "tounges", when in fact they're just subconciously/conciously doing this. Here it is (from a baptism service):

Person 1: OH-dras-shoe-ma-har-ah-mice--eh-lee-eye-see-on
Person 2: ON-desh-shay-rin-da-HASS
Person 1: Deux-shay-ray-HASS
Person 1: [My Church] My people
Person 2: ON-day-crah-nar-ra-HASS
Person 1: This day
Person 2: Ch-Chee-ree-on-de-she-lass
Person 1: You have witnessed
Person 2: Chee-ree-on-de-ser-rah-HASS
Person 1: The power of my Holy Spirit
Person 2: ON-dey-re-pra-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: in your midst
Person 2: Sheer-rim-de-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: Because I have renewed your lives
Person 2: ON-de-re-hash--dee-ice
Person 1: Because I have blessed
Person 2: Sheer-ree-own-de-rass
Person 1: [these] young people
Person 2: En-de-hash-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: who have taken a step forward
Person 2: ON-de-re-cray-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: in preparing themselves
Person 2: Sheer-ree-own-de-rin-da-HASS
Person 1: for the return of My Son
Person 2: Shuh-hay-le-sheer-ree-ass
Person 1: because they were faithful
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-ree-ass
Person 1: to my command
Person 2: ON-de-cray-sheer-ree-ay
Person 1: I Am also
Person 2: ON-de-ray-hass-dee-ice
Person 1: faithful unto you
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: They will see my promises fullfilled
Person 2: Shay-haid-de-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: As they remain in my presence
Person 2: ON-de-rin-dar-ah-HASS
Person 1: This new identity
Person 2: Sheer-ree-own-day-TASS
Person 1: that you have received
Person 2: ON-de-re-crah-she-le-ice
Person 1: using
Person 2: Shay-rin-da-HASS
Person 1: in boldness
Person 2: ON-de-ray-veh-lass
Person 1: because still many
Person 2: ON-de-sheer-re-ace
Person 1: I desire to save
Person 2: ON-de-re-har-na-HASS
Person 1: And I will use you
Person 2: Sheer-ree-own--de-re-sheer-ree-ass
Person 1: as vessels in my hands
Person 2: Sheer-ree-hen-dar-HASS
Person 1: Be not afraid,
Person 2: Sheer-ree-own-de-sheer-le-ass
Person 1: but glorify my name
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-re-ass
Person 1: because the Lord goes ahead us
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-le-hey-[me-ash..]
Person 1: and my Church rejoice in Me
Person 2: On-de-re-HASS
Person 1: because what you witnessed today
Person 2: ON-de-re-HASS-dee-ass
Person 1: is a result of your prayers
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-ree-ace
Person 1: [the result] of your seeking] that I establish
Person 2: ON-de-re-lee--she-me-HASS-de-ice
Person 1: my Work in this place,
Person 2: Sheer-ree-on-de-le-sheer-ree-ice
Person 1: and this I am doing
Person 2: ON-de-rays
Person 1: for the honor
Person 2: On-de-le-hash-dee-ice
Person 1: and glory of my Name
Person 2: ON-de-ray-[shuh-le-ass]
Person 1: Praise My Name today,
Person 2: Sheer-eh--sheer-le-ice
Person 1: Because I bless you and I renew,
Person 2: ON-de-re-sheer-ay-ice Sheer-ee-ay-de-le-HASS
Person 1: you, each one of you in my presence today
Person 2: ON-de-[le?]-ray-hal-lay-HASS
Person 1: Glory to Jesus! (Alleuiah!) Praise the name of the LORD! (Alleuiah! Alleuiah!)

Yes, I actually transcribed that

in this example you can see the person is using a set of "words" and "phrases' that are being mixed back and fourth. "HASS" and "ICE" are the two big ones you hear a LOT in this group. Even the "interpretation" and phraseology is quite similar. In larger meetings/seminars the big wigs up at the front go into this thing, and those who fawn after them, wanting to be like them, no doubt have a sub-concious desire to fit in. As for the example above, I liken this almost to a fax machine making a bunch of weird noises, while a paper with a intelligible message is printing out. Once the transmission has ceases, then the noise stops.

If you are curious about other examples, or want to hear the original, you can pm me your email.

[steve]

One complaint I have about this kind of "interpretation," is that it always is calculated to sound like a "prophecy"—that is, it is rendered as a word of the Lord to the church. There is no example in the scripture of tongues expressing a message from God. Paul spoke of "praying" and "blessing God" and "giving thanks" in the Spirit (meaning "in tongues"—1 Cor.14:15, 16, 17)—which are all examples of speaking "to" God, not "from" God. In fact, Paul says, "He that speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God" (1 Cor.14:2). Others may be edified when it is interpreted, but this does not change the fact that its content is directed to God. It is not a prophecy from God.

[Homer]

jpat1975,

Here is one of the best I have read on the subject:

Tongues: A Third Way

http://www.tonguesrevisited.com/TR%202n ... zed%20.pdf

[morbo3000]

You deserve a gift card to Starbucks for transcribing tongues. You made my day.

[jpat1975]

I will have a look at the replies shortly. Here are those audio clips I made reference to:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... aring#list

Thoughts. Please be sure to mention which clip you were listening to (filename, etc). The "be ready to speak loudly in tongues" one I confronted the original pastor on. He didn't really give me an answer, other than to ask me how I might go about doing such things (I think he was trying to suggest that this wasn't him trying to pull a fast one, but just for folks to be ready to speak). Here is the transcript. Please note that one was done in Poland with a mix of English and Polish speaking people, so those languages are not part of this:

["speak loudly in tongues" example - I've slowed down one of the recordings, so you can determine for yourselves in my transcript is accurate or not]

English: "The Lord is going to speak, so make sure you translate.. amen..."

Translator: ok

English: amen

{ English turns to a visiting ?pastor? named "Atla" }

English: "Atla, the Lord is going to speak, so be ready to speak loudly [?in tongues so we know what's happening?]"

{ The English Pastor then proceeds to speak in an unknown tongue (similar in the style like in the Brazilian group in question). }

{ Someone else speaks in an unknown tongue, "Atla", I presume. }

{ Then English Pastor begins to give the interpretation of tongues in English. }

{ The translator translates. }

{ etc. }

[jpat1975]

In those audio clips the ones with the "TF" in the filename, are spoken by an american pastor who came out of Vineyard, and into this group, so his tounges don't sound anything like the others. Interesting. I know this fellow and he's genuine and sincere. He was among many non-Brazilians who left the group due to bad things happening in the denomination. He was one of the highly educated pastors who had a relationship with Jesus, and extensive variety of denominations before coming to the Brazilian one. He isn't one in my mind who would fake things, but like many who speak on tounges, it's hard to get a good description or answer about what's going on. They seem to think it's from God.

[jpat1975]

The "JG" one has one person from Sweden I think, and his toungues is basically "mala hala mala" over and over. There was another American pastor I heard who went "Hem-en-ee-hey, hem-en-ee-eye" back and forth. This stuff seems to fake. These particular manifestations, I mean.

[jaydam]

Interesting posts. I've always wondered, if tongues is a language, my old church taught it was the "language of heaven or angels," then why does it vary so much and no consistency is found in it like you would begin to see in other languages?

With foreign languages you begin to catch repeated syllables, and even without knowing the language you can generally identify the unique sound by ear. I don't know Chinese or Russian, but I can distinguish them by ear.

From what I have heard of tongues, not such linguistic patterns emerge. In your recordings and transcripts have you found ANY linguistic patterns common across the tongues speakers?

[jpat1975]

I just found that they seem to be having a common lingo from imitating one another subconsciously. The Brazilian tongues vs American tongues examples which I posted above in the clips, where you have a lot of similar sounds and "words", I think, demonstrates that. If it was truly from God, it wouldn't be so random. All the babble would be more or less uniform. There would be some kind of linguistic pattern. Here's what I think is happening. At some point in time there was a genuine manifestation of tongues during an early revival among a group of non-Christians who converted, and/or mainline non-Charismatic folks who suddenly found themselves doing this. The first generation I think is probably legit. After that things begin to stagnate but folks feel a pressure to keep up appearances and with the best of intentions make themselves believe it's still happening. I think this happened in Brazil with this group (these were originally coming out of a Presbyterian denomination which wanted nothing to do with that stuff), and/or they started imitating what they saw going on around them. They hear people in larger seminars preaching, and doing the tongues things and play it safe by sticking to the formula their elders are doing. The "interpretation" is so much an obvious formula. I think it's just a fancy-roundabout way of saying what you THINK God would say at that moment. A idea comes to mind, and you think that's a "revelation" and then you dress it up in the 3rd person as if it's "God" speaking, when in fact it's you putting on a show. Other times, when there are no tounges, someone will simply say they had a "revelation" or "vision" and then say directly, or invent a symbolic representation or some generic biblical idea ("I saw us in a boat, and the sea was stormy, but then there was a light in the distance - when we got there an angel put oil on our heads", etc). People are just being dramatic, and are simply more bold and imaginative. They are keeping up appearances and/or parroting to uphold the charismatic/pentecostal facade. I think somewhere early on, at some point, there were Christians genuinely doing this at the founding of a particular movement or revival - and then it all faded and turned into a game of "telephone". http://www.wikihow.com/Play-the-Telephone-Game

There was a point of time when I'd be terrified to speak so freely about this. But I've reasoned with myself that there is so much garbage out there that God would not and could not hold me accountable for stuff He hasn't personally told me. So many are scared to admit this, or even question "gifts", and will believe anything they hear. It's pathetic.

[morbo3000]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues5.htm

This is a good summary of studies that have been done, including linguistic and neurological. There are some opinions though that are not sourced, though. But the studies are reputable. And answer some of the questions you are asking.