Bethel - Redding, CA

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jaydam
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Mon May 09, 2016 3:54 pm

Here is a video on the recent Azusa revival attempted by Lou Engle last month (he is the man in the bright blue shirt at the beginning of the video).

I do not like using videos that already are jaded or sarcastic in nature, but do not have the knowledge to clip and compile video myself. I grabbed this video as I believe, while a bit eccentric at times, it has some excellent clips of what went on at Azusa. So, if you are interested in knowing about what is going on with the continued NAR movement, I hope you can overlook some of the oddities thrown in by the video's compiler.

Some points in the video. Watch Lou Engle's movements. He is notorious for his "jerking" in the Spirit (see the last post). You will see it throughout the video. Also, Bill Johnson makes an appearance in the video, as well as Shawn Bolz. Shawn's video clip in this compilation REALLY shows how he uses psychic tricks as prophecy (see the last post for more info on his prophetic style)

https://youtu.be/WFeVkIUUTyw

Here is another video about Lou Engle and his movement (speaking of movement, you can also see more of his "jerking" in the Spirit). This video is by the same compiler as the last one, but I believe the guy does a much better job in this video explaining about the 7 mountain mandate which NAR follows, and their dominion theology.

https://youtu.be/UnZHofr-wn0

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jaydam
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Wed May 11, 2016 12:44 am

As of today Bill Johnson's wife confirmed that he has been having some health issues so he went in to be checked out by a doctor.

It was discovered that he has a large, benign mass in his small intestine which has been the cause of the problems.

She said that the next step is surgery.

I wish no ill on anyone, but I cannot think how much this should open their eyes to the unrealistic teachings of their own movement. Their head apostle, who preaches NAR style dominion and healing has a son who is deaf and now personal health problems.

Their theology simply cannot line up with their own experience.


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morbo3000
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by morbo3000 » Wed May 11, 2016 1:14 am

An occasional visitor to the life group I lead traveled to Bethel this last week. She posted this update to Facebook.
I wanted to say hi and share with you all how my date is going with my good GOOD Father and Jesus:) oh my stars!! Talk about romancing your bride!!:):):):):):):) He has painted the most beautifU skies and hidden behind clouds and burst forth brighter than magnificent can describe as He called me to look at the beauty of His creation, He said this way right here and revealed Himself pursuing me saying see here too, I made this, and I know what you like, the colors that sooth your heart and colors that brighten your soul and I wanted you to know ..I KNOW ALL of you, ALL about you, and I smile:):):):):):):)
When I read that, I asked my wife "what do you think is going on inside her head?"

When people "experience" God, I wonder who/what they are talking about. A vague trinitarian formula for me is God the Father is revealed in creation, the son was revealed in history, incarnating the father, and the spirit testifies the father and son to us. Don't get hung up on the theology, it's just a working sketch. The purpose for the sketch is to ask, when someone is "experiencing" God, what are they experiencing? Father, son, spirit? Theologically, it seems, it's the holy spirit. Testifying to the father, and the son. But don't get hung up on that either.

This leaves the big question What is going on in her neurons? Because that doesn't sound like the spirit to me.

I'm wondering about the psychological state of someone who feels like this. It's certainly not unique to her.

When a woman is saying " how my date is going with my good GOOD Father and Jesus:) oh my stars!! Talk about romancing your bride!!"

Remove the possibility that's the holy spirit (or a demon), and you are left with this strange delusion where you are "romancing" yourself. You are imagining a god, and then listening to it, and feeling happy feelings from it.

C-razy
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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DeGraff
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by DeGraff » Thu May 12, 2016 5:14 pm

The visions and experiences of people in the Old and New Testament tended to confirm and support each other. If your role in God's plan was of major significance (Abraham, Mary), an angelic messenger appeared and walked you through events that were to take place. If you were a prophet, you were invited to a throne-room experience like Isaiah or John the Apostle to receive a vision.

If you compare their experiences, it's not an illogical kaleidoscope of emotion. The NAR movement seems to encourage people toward experience for experience sake. As if having visions, seeing angels and hearing heavenly voices should be the normal Christian life. I don't think Daniel or Ezekiel were seeking out the things they saw. Paul was extremely guarded about what he experienced "while in or out of the body".

So here we are broken... We have one part of the church that is closed-off to the supernatural, and the other part of the church that has become untethered from scripture in it's quest for spiritual significance.

dizerner

Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by dizerner » Thu May 12, 2016 6:32 pm

DeGraff wrote:The visions and experiences of people in the Old and New Testament tended to confirm and support each other. If your role in God's plan was of major significance (Abraham, Mary), an angelic messenger appeared and walked you through events that were to take place. If you were a prophet, you were invited to a throne-room experience like Isaiah or John the Apostle to receive a vision.

If you compare their experiences, it's not an illogical kaleidoscope of emotion. The NAR movement seems to encourage people toward experience for experience sake. As if having visions, seeing angels and hearing heavenly voices should be the normal Christian life. I don't think Daniel or Ezekiel were seeking out the things they saw. Paul was extremely guarded about what he experienced "while in or out of the body".

So here we are broken... We have one part of the church that is closed-off to the supernatural, and the other part of the church that has become untethered from scripture in it's quest for spiritual significance.
well said

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morbo3000
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by morbo3000 » Thu May 19, 2016 12:14 am

Yes. Very well said.

The door is opened to this stuff by the book of Acts, and Paul's talking about spiritual gifts, and prophecy and the like. The NAR take it too far, in the opinion of the commenters in this thread.

How would we know if a "prophecy" was "proper, and in order." Paul assumes prophecies are happening. And tongues. This is all stuff the NAR is doing. It's the content and the assumption that they will be "throne-room" type experiences.

So, how do we balance those things?
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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crgfstr1
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by crgfstr1 » Thu May 19, 2016 8:22 am

I feel like we have been brainwashed in a sense growing up in such a competitive environment and "me" generation. If our values are secular then it is why am I not the President or Bill Gates or someone who has it all. Whatever we think all is. If we then shift what we values to be some what more Christian then we ask why am I not Moses, Daniel, or Abraham. Why don't I matter more. But our values are upside down even when it comes to this.

Outside of his ministerial life Jesus led a rather insignificant life as did most of the prophets. The prophets usually were humble servants who didn't draw attention to themselves accept when they were in error and they learned from their mistakes. Our motto is somewhat be the best you you can be rather than serve the most that you can serve. The servant receives little in return and doesn't even expect a thank you. Balance is hard to find when up is down and down is up.

I think the message from doubting Thomas was that those who believe the most while receiving the least are the most blessed. Those who need to see the miracles or something else to believe and strengthen their faith are indeed weaker so we should seek to believe the most while receiving the least evidence necessary for our belief.

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