Sex

[john316yes]

Today on Steves broadcast he said something stupid he said having sex outside marriage was not fornication. He also said in previous broadcast it is possible for people in cults to be saved. This is hippie talk.

[steve]

First, I did not say that sex outside of marriage is not fornication. I said that the Greek word translated as "fornication" in our Bibles is a broader word than what we normally think it to mean in English. In English we usually only associate it with premarital sex, whereas porneia refers to any unlawful sexual activity. I am sorry you misheard me.

I don't remember the hippies talking about the salvation of cult members. If they did, they probably didn't share my views on the subject. I believe Jesus can find a true seeker, wherever he/she may be. Some may be currently involved in cults when He finds them—or even afterward. A friend of mine in ministry was saved in the 70's and the first group of "believers" he found and associated with were Jehovah's Witnesses. He didn't stay with them long, because Jesus led him out of the group in a short time. If you think my friend was not saved at that time, I would be interested in the basis for your making such a judgment about someone you do not know.

[TheEditor]

Greetings,

Being raised a third generation JW and taking several years to slowly fade away from the JW orgaization so as not o raise too many eyebrows, I can attest that a person can "come out" of Babylon in heart before physically leavng in body. I also believe that some of the ones I left behind there were genuine in their following Christ despite being blinded to some extent by Watchtower teachings.

Since I left the JW "cult" (to use a hackneyed term) I went through a time of actively trying to find a fellowship where I was welcomed. Unfortunatley, most if not all churches I attended had a strong degree of confessionallism--the Trinity seemed to be the touchstone. Having not been raised with the Trinity teaching, and knowing all too well the history and arguments behind it, all I could ever intellectually affirm was that there is something in the nature of the relationship betweeen the Father and the Son that allows Jesus to be considered "theos" while at the same time still be referring to his own "Father" as his "theos". And, I could never comfortably make the Holy Spirit factor into the equasion since he/it seems to be referred to as a "power" or "force" more often than he/it is personified. Whatever the case, this kept me as a "non-Christian" in the minds of most church fellowships.

Unless someone is part of a seriously destructive (like Waco or Jonestown) cult, I would suggest that those in the pale of "mainstream" orthodoxy try to find ways to slowly reach people with the Good News, in subtle ways; adding to what is likely a sincere desire on the part of "cult" members to serve their Lord and Master, by presenting the truth about freedom in Christ, rather than viewing them as being blind members of a "cult". If the latter were the only method ever used on me (as it had been many times I assure you) I would still be at the Kingdom Hall and not ever gotten to meet you good folks.

Regards, Brenden.

[TK]

This is hippie talk.

I cannot stop chuckling over this. Sounds like something my dear departed grandpa would have said, except he probably would have said "that's yankee hippie talk."

TK

[Paidion]

In my opinion, the idea that members of "cults" cannot be "saved" or true Christians is based on the idea that to be a true Christian must subscribe to a particular set of beliefs, however minimal. When it is understood that one can hold to one or more "heretical" beliefs and still be a true disciple of Christ, loving Him and obeying His word, this exclusivism evaporates.

[morbo3000]

I find two strong issues the Bible is addressing about sex.
1). Adultery as a breaking of covenant.
2). Promiscuity. Especially temple prostitution.

I believe that sex between committed couples who have not yet wed is a little more of a grey area.

The bottom line is that sex is fraught with peril. Married and single. Young couples who have started a sexual relationship have no counsel in their lives about the complexities of that relationship because they are living under the guilt that they are fornicating. I know. I was one of them. This is not the same as people who are just sleeping around. Many a person has had their heart broken believing that their sexual union was a symbol of their partner's commitment. The modern abstinence curriculums use that as a warning against pre-marital sex. But many of us know that marriage is not necessarily a guarantee against that.

I realize that much of what I'm saying is pragmatic. But I've asked this question before, and most of the answers are that this issue, sex before marriage between committed couples, is not necessarily fornication. It's a messy area. That grey-ness is no excuse for liberty. But I think it should introduce us to the possibility that we should say "ok... you're having sex.." and then open conversations about the relationship. I could have used that. And I think other young couples in the church could too.

Just my two-cents.