Christmas ~ Naughty or Nice?

[Soulsnaxx]

Just in time for the Holiday, a caller to the Narrow Path radio program questioned whether he ought to celebrate Christmas, in light of the pagan traditions associated with it. This is a video version of that call.

Here's the YouTube link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrXbFJqmffA

And here's the Vimeo link

http://vimeo.com/82150095

[MichaelBorges]

I remember hearing this call on the air a few days ago, and as usual, great answer (and analysis) Steve Gregg gives this caller's question!
Good job on this video Soulsnaax! You've added lots of images that are so typical of this subject.

[Paidion]

It's a great video. Since Xmas practices have pagan origins, the question is asked whether Christians ought to avoid it entirely. Steve gives the very interesting answer that though many of the practices have pagan origins, no one whom he knows, celebrates Xmas in a Pagan way, but celebrates it as the birth of Christ. He also indicates that since there's nothing in the Bible about celebrating the birth of Christ, it's up to the individual whether or not he wishes to celebrate it.

For the first three centuries A.D. Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ. About 354 A.D. the pagan celebration of Saturnalia in honour of the god Saturn was changed to a celebration of the birth of Christ. The Saturnalia celebration was held around Dec. 25, and gifts and small images were exchanged.

The catholic church began to hold three masses in honour of the three births of Christ: [1] His birth before all ages [2] His birth from Mary, and [3] His birth in the hearts of the faithful. Each of these masses were “Christ’s Mass” or “Christmas”.

By the way, you have probably noticed I wrote “Xmas” instead of “Christmas”. Some Christians think by spelling it that way we are taking the “Christ” out of Christmas and replacing it with an unknown quantity. Not so!
The letter “X” represents the Greek letter “Chi”, the first letter of the Greek word “χριστος” (Christos) which is translated as “Christ”. So the “X” in “Xmas” is tantamount to “Christ”.

In some of the traditional churches, RC, Orthodox, and Anglican, you sometimes see this symbol:

☧


If you have ever seen this, have you wondered what it represented? It represents “Christ” because it is the first two letters in the Greek word “χριστος” .
The big X is the letter “chi”, the first letter, and the big P is the letter “rho”, the second letter.

[Soulsnaxx]

Thank you Michael & Paidion for your feedback.

I hope the video helps Christians (whether they favor or oppose celebrating Christmas) to lovingly respect the liberty of those who hold a different view from their own about Christmas. I think Paul speaks to this principle in Romans 14:5-12.

Our family has always celebrated Christmas (tree, decorations, wreaths, gifts, cards) as an expression of joy and thankfulness for history’s most miraculous birth—the incarnation of God Himself. For us, Christmas is the greatest birthday party of all! In our hearts and minds, there is not an iota of paganism associated with our celebration of Christ’s birth. Our consciences are clear.

And Paidion, thank you for the historical and linguistic information. I didn’t know that about Xmas. You are an excellent teacher.

[crgfstr1]

It's a great video. Since Xmas practices have pagan origins, the question is asked whether Christians ought to avoid it entirely. Steve gives the very interesting answer that though many of the practices have pagan origins, no one whom he knows, celebrates Xmas in a Pagan way, but celebrates it as the birth of Christ. He also indicates that since there's nothing in the Bible about celebrating the birth of Christ, it's up to the individual whether or not he wishes to celebrate it.

I heard on a tape today that Steve likes it when people disagree with him. If he said that no one whom he knows worships it in a pagan way then the people he knows must be very different then the ones I know or I disagree.

The Christmas tree is directly out of Jeremiah 10 and is a pagan practice. I believe that it tells the opposite story of the bible that a dead tree can bear fruit and have good gifts. Then you have Santa Claus, the commercial aspects of the holiday, the date which confuses non Christians and have used to argue that Jesus wasn't real, etc.

I have seen many good articles on all the ways in which it is pagan. This one has some good food for thought though I don't know anything about its author and haven't vetted all that is in it.
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psy ... /celeb.htm

I think as part of coming out of Babylon we should get rid of this tradition of men. I don't see how God would be upset with anyone who chose not to worship Christmas. After all the best evidence is he was probably born in September and there is no evidence that early Christians celebrated it. If that is correct I think the safest position to be right with God would be to not celebrate Christmas. Naughty or nice. My current thinking: it is very very naughty and not at all nice.

I have heard some argue that because we are worshiping the correct God it is okay. Cain in Genesis 4 worshiped the correct God to but in the wrong way and that wasn't acceptable to God at all. We should make sure that not only are we worshiping the correct God that we are worshiping Him in the ways He wants us to and not in the ways the Pagans worship.

[steve]

The correct worship of God is "in Spirit and Truth." It is unrelated to special days and festivals. You are right that God would not be offend for people to stop worshipping Christmas. In fact, I am sure He would be quite offended if people were to begin worshipping Christmas. I have never met a person whom I thought was worshipping Christmas, but I would be very offended to find it so among Christians.

Jeremiah 10 says nothing about Christmas trees. There is a common story passed among Christians that has taken on something like an "urban legend" status, that Jeremiah is describing the practice of decorating trees similarly to the Christmas tree traditions. Well, people will, no doubt, see what they want to see in scripture, until they come to the place of using scripture to seek knowledge of the mind of God, rather than to prove a pet position. Jeremiah 10 is describing the construction of idols ("the work of the hands of the workman"). The "tree" in the passages ceases to be a tree very early in the process as it become merely a piece of wood that is shaped and then plated with silver or gold. If people turn a Christmas tree into an object of worship, then they are in violation (in principle) of the same sin described there. Otherwise, there is no connection.

[crgfstr1]

Thank you. That was a typo. I did not mean worshiping Christmas. I meant celebrate Christmas or treat it in a special way.

[dizerner]

Things can have pagan roots and kind of lose their meaning over time. Not many people complain about our week days, Woden's day and Thor's day, etc. The thing that bothers me about Christmas would be the materialism, and that certainly isn't true for everyone—it can bring many people a sense of emotional warmth.

[Paidion]

Not many people complain about our week days, Woden's day and Thor's day, etc.

I don't complain, but I'm not happy about it. The early Christians didn't accept it. They used the terms "first day of the week", "second day of the week", etc.

[Soulsnaxx]

Dizerner and Paidion, your July posts on a Christmas topic were refreshing. Somehow the summer air felt a bit cooler for a moment, I think. Thank you! Years ago I attended a church that held an annual "Christmas in July" party. It was cool.

And I agree with your comments concerning the names of the days of the week. I wish they had different titles, but nothing can be done about it now. Besides, I hardly ever think of a ringed planet or the Roman god of agriculture on Saturday. Or any other day.