CULTS. on today's boadcast.

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Jill
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CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by Jill » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:55 pm

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Michelle
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Re: CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by Michelle » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:58 pm

Hi Jill,

I'm not an expert in cults or anything, but I do have a few observations to make about what you've said here. I haven't heard today's broadcast yet, so I'm just going by what you posted.

1 a) I think you make a valid point about the Roman Catholic Church, and I've heard other people say the same thing. I don't think that the fact that any group dismisses themselves as NOT being a cult is an indication that they truly aren't. Which cults readily and proudly label themselves as a cult, anyway?

b) If a Calvary Chapel or a Baptist group demand that their members can only think the way the leader does, they could be a cult as well.

c) I've noticed you use the word Baptist as some kind of general term that describes a group of people, and this group is not necessarily just those of us who are affiliated with a Baptist association. I'm curious about what the word Baptist means to you.

2) I'm not sure what to say about the teachability of a cult member. I guess they can learn their cultic dogma just fine, but they seem unable to process any ideas that differ from their leaders' paradigm. I think.

Jill
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Post by Jill » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:49 pm

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by kaufmannphillips » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:44 pm

Jill wrote:
In the beginning of todays show Steve defined a cult, like Jehovah's Witnesses for instance, saying: "those in a cult are no longer able to think for themselves"...

{and}

Michelle wrote:
If a Calvary Chapel or a Baptist group demand that their members can only think the way the leader does, they could be a cult as well.
(a) How many "good, solid" members of "palatable" congregations are "able to think for themselves" - when it comes to the essentials of their faith? Or rather, how many are emotionally and mentally free enough from the influences of their pastor/denomination/congregation to think differently from the party line?

(b) How much latitude is generally afforded by "palatable" congregations for thought on the bible, the divinity of Jesus, the means of salvation, and/or other core pieces of dogma?
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:42 am

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steve
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Re: CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by steve » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:01 am

(a) How many "good, solid" members of "palatable" congregations are "able to think for themselves" - when it comes to the essentials of their faith? Or rather, how many are emotionally and mentally free enough from the influences of their pastor/denomination/congregation to think differently from the party line?
More should be. I don't know why everyone doesn't insist upon it.

(b) How much latitude is generally afforded by "palatable" congregations for thought on the bible, the divinity of Jesus, the means of salvation, and/or other core pieces of dogma?
Not enough. that's why I consider many (even very orthodox) churches to be somewhat "cultic."

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Michelle
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Re: CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by Michelle » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:34 pm

Jill wrote:Michelle,

(This is just karenprtland still, but Jill.)What the term "Baptist" means to me? Baptist, Evangelical, Christian, though not necessarily Pentecostal. And not RCC or Protestant either. The Book "Evidence Demands a Verdict" type format is often used I've noticed, though not exclusively by any means. The unity among so many "Baptists" seems to be the term or word "Trinitarian" though many other words may be unifying factors as well. I meant no harm by using it, but it seems to be the backgroung of so many here on the forum, which I consider a "hosted" forum, and TNP is "Steve's show" who happens to still attend. I don't think that Trinitarian is the only non-cultists choice of a God head arrangement that is said to be derived exclusively from scripture text only. Many do still hold this view both on the forum and on the radio however. That "Trinitaianism" is the only dominate view to be found in the New Testament. This is very debatable but I would hope that it would not stop any one from congregating together necessarily, even though I personally do not believe that Jesus Christ is God, but The Son of: God who is The Father. This is not "cult blindness" speaking. This is actually how I read what Jesus Christ to taught, and Moses, and The Prophets. This is difficult. Darinhouston opened up the Religion & Philosophy for The LDS topic section (aka Mormonism) under What is "The LDS View of God"? back in sept '08, and it split right off into far too many different directions almost imediately.

What term would be better for me to use than Baptist ? If not RCC or Protestant nor Pentecostal necessarily. "Christian" is ok, but many are quite exclusive about using this term, though not RCC, Protestant, nor even Evangelical necessarily, but who are especially not LDS or JW. While the Muslim obviously use the Koran and not The Bible, the LDS and JW do. Yet are not necessarily Baptists, and especially are not RCC, though will still argue that they are Christians just like everybody else who disciples Jesus Christ, and that Jesus Christ as Lord and Governor of all mankind. Including over Muslim, Hindu, and Buddist, though not necesarily.
Thanks, Jill/Karen, for your explanation. I guess since I was raised in a Baptist church and still consider myself one (although I don't belong to a Baptist church at the moment), I have a definition with more emotional ties. What you are describing to me is better labeled Evangelicalism, although I guess Baptist is as good a label as any.

Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:07 pm

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Michelle
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Re: CULTS. on today's boadcast.

Post by Michelle » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:51 pm

Jill wrote:Michelle
Hi Karen,

I'm really not a church historian any more than I'm an expert on cults, but I'll give you my thoughts and hope that anyone else who reads this will jump in with corrections if needed.
Please suggest what you might mean when you think of the term "Baptist".
Well, putting aside potlucks and everyone saying they don't drink alcohol, the two main distinctives that seemed to be drummed into my head when I was a kid were believer's baptism and the autonomy of congregations. Other than that, Baptists are evangelicals in that we are trinitarian, believe that salvation is by faith in Christ alone, and hold that the Bible is inspired by God and is the authority for matters of faith and conduct.

The reason I asked what you meant when you used the term baptist is because many people immediately think of Fred Phelps or some other lunatic like that, who, unfortunately, have the word baptist attached to them.
Arn't the Baptist's some of the most Evangelical ?
Hmm...interesting question. I don't know who are the most evangelical believers out there. Sorry.
What kind of Baptist's would be considered more orthadox or the more conservative, other than the Evangelical variety.
Dunno. I think Westboro Baptist is probably considered pretty conservative, but less orthodox, although I haven't really looked into their statement of faith.

The Baptist church I grew up in was an American Baptist Church, which is considered pretty liberal, however, a few years ago they, along with about 300 other churches, pulled out of the American Baptist parent denomination over the issue of homosexuality. Of course in the late 60s and the 70s, when I was young, I thought they were hopelessly behind the times and conservative.
And which variety are the more Debating variety, as I would like to avoid both private and public slaughter as much as possible.
Ha! Wouldn't we all like to avoid that! I don't know who are the debating variety. My mom used to debate a lot with other members, and even stood up to the pastor at times, but I don't think she slaughtered anyone.
I have a Bible just as anyone does, but may lack both the inclination and skill to argue in what may be considered formal debate style "fellowship". Do you have any tips for me?
Don't argue; the baptist is always right, so you'll lose.

Just kidding.

Don't argue, just tell how you see things, listen to how your correspondent sees them, and then discuss the similarities and differences.

Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:18 pm

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