Why it is wrong for a strong Christian to celebrate XMAS pub

[canada]

Paidion ... your response to my challenge was as expected ... few give their biblical examples.

You and morebo3000 are knowledgeable students of the Bible ... I am primarily a student of Revelation. I have seen two witnesses that appear “as dead”, I have found 24 elders that fit the biblical description, and I can see why the victors over the beast, his image mark and NUMBER would sing a “new song” as there are 150 songs in the book of Psalms. Rev 15:3.

As I noted earlier, the image, mark and number of the beast have all come to pass, but most will not accept this until after God destroys that great city Mystery Babylon ... Vatican City. Rev 17 and 18.

At that time, futurists will be saying ... how can this be? ... these things were supposed to occur prior to its destruction.

When this ever burning witness to the world comes to pass, perhaps then, our conversation will come back to mind. Until then, God bless you both.

[crgfstr1]

If a present day Protestant believed as the Reformation saints and martyrs ...

Thank you for your explanation Canada. I agree that there is a lot information that does point to the papal system as you suggested. While I have not arrived at any conclusion yet (I just got Steve's book but haven't started it yet), I don't think a mere dismissal of "baloney" helps the situation at all. I am immediately suspect when someone uses such types of dismissive language in an argument. It is the same case I was making on another thread that shuts down discussion rather than making points that stand on their own merit.

The one thing that hasn't come to pass completely yet though is the "can't buy or sell without the mark of the beast". It could be nearly true for nations as they can't buy or sell (due to sanctions) essentially. It appears to me now that most companies can't get loans or get financing without the mark of the beast either. I started a small company and entered a competition for financing. I found it very odd that the first thing it asked for was a logo for the company. It seems most major corporations literally have 666 in their logo or have extremely pagan logos with some form of satanic symbolism. While I am not sure and even somewhat doubt this is the mark of the beast per say I find it very unacceptable. I don't know if these things are being done deliberately by people, there is spiritual influence behind it, or people (including me) are just reading too much into it. One of the biggest churches where I live has a logo that is supposed to be waves but to me looks far more like 666 then it looks like waves. The company I currently work for changed their logo as part of a financing round and now it I can clearly make out 666 in much the same way as one can in the google chrome logo.

I find it hard to dismiss the whore aspect of the papal system that has slept (intermixed) both with governments and pagan religions. Drunk with the blood of the saints seems to fit very much with the crusades. The current Pope I believe is going to take this a step further and pull in all world religions into the fold as he seems to accept them including atheists. Given the conviction of the early reformers, I think it would be a mistake to dismiss these signs without a clear and better alternative.

[Paidion]

It seems most major corporations literally have 666 in their logo...

[Paidion]

It seems most major corporations literally have 666 in their logo..

Okay, let me explain why I "dismiss" this as baloney:

In the book of revelation 666 is not some mysterious number that's part of a credit card or hidden away in some mysterious way to prove the influence of the Antichrist or Beast. Rather 666 is the number of his name (Rev 13:17, 15:2). In what way would 666 in the logo of "most major corporations" (which I doubt) prove that those corporations were under the power of the Beast? In what way would 666 be the number of anyone's name in these corporations?

What is the number of a name? In Greek, each letter was linked to a number:

α Alpha 1, β Beta 2, γ Gamma 3, δ Delta 4, ε Epsilon 5, ζ Zeta 7, η Eta 8, θ Theta 9, ι Iota 10, κ Kappa 20, λ Lamda 30, μ Mu 40, ν Nu 50, ξ Xi 60, ο Omicron 70 π Pi 80, ρ Rho 100, σ, ς Sigma 200, τ Tau 300, υ Upsilon 400, φ Phi 500, χ Chi 600, ψ Psi 700, ω Omega 800

Possibly you noticed that there are three numbers missing, namely 6, 90, and 900. These three numbers were represented by characters outside the alphabet.

ϝ Digamma was once a part of the Greek alphabet. It remained only to represent the number 6. The same with ϟ Koppa 90 and ϡ Sampi 900.

To obtain the number of a name in Greek you simply added the numerical equivalent to the letters of the name. For example, the number of Peter's name, which in Greek is πετρος (petros) would be the sum of π80 ε5 τ300 ρ100 ο70 ς200. The sum of these numbers is 755, and therefore the number of Peter's name is 755. So clearly, according to the Greeks' method of calculating the number of a name, the apostle Peter was NOT the Beast.

So what names DO have the number 666. Irenæus (120-202 A.D.) offered some suggestions in his writing "Against Heresies" book 5, chapter 30, section 3:

Evanthas ευανθας: ε5 υ400 α1 ν50 θ9 α1 ς200
Lateinos λατεινος: λ30 α1 τ300 ε5 ι10 ν50 ο70 ς200
Teitan τειταν: τ300 ε5 ι10 τ300 α1 ν50

Each of these names adds to 666. Irenæus made no remarks about the first name.

Those who believe the RC church to be an institution of the Beast say that the second name is the name of the Beast, claiming it to mean "the Latin Man", that is, the Pope. However Irenæus said it was a probable name, because the Roman Empire was the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel].

He also thought the third name was "worthy of credit." One of the reasons he gave is that among "many persons," this name is considered to be divine, so that "even the sun is termed 'Titan' by those who now have the rule."

However, Irenæus wrapped it all up by making this wise statement:

We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign.

[crgfstr1]

Paidion,

I think people often combine things that aren't supposed to be combined. Claiming that the RC might be the whore of Babylon doesn't make them the beast. Merely that they have strong control over the beast but not necessarily complete control. I think it is pretty clear that the beast is a governmental power. At one point the RC was part of the governmental system. For a very long time it wasn't until last year where the flag was again raised at the UN in September.

I am not suggesting that companies that have 666 in their logo or other pagan or satanic imagery makes them the beast either. Merely that the either consciously or unknowingly may have submitted or surrendered themselves to the beast system. If an amillennial view is correct this is the governmental power that has reined since Jesus's time.

If I were around during the crusades I believe I would have thought that was the time period where satan was loosed for a season. Maybe though it is now as I seen more and more satanic activity as part of mainstream entertainment.

Right now it is clear that the world bank has a great deal of control of the world governments. That isn't a conspiracy theory, it is merely a fact. The question is who really controls the world bank? That is where speculation comes in and one can call some of that speculation conspiracy theories as it would be hard to prove because it is privately held.

[canada]

I was unable to log into this forum for a 24 hour period over the weekend ... from three different locations ... did any one else experience this problem.

All is ok now but I thought the site may have been hacked.

[morbo3000]

I was unable to log into this forum for a 24 hour period over the weekend ... from three different locations ... did any one else experience this problem.

All is ok now but I thought the site may have been hacked.

I had the same problem.