Question: Opinion on Islam and Revelation?

[TheEditor]

Hi Robby,

I think we (as a country) did that when we let George Bush (a Dispensationalist) who viewed Gog and Magog as active in the Middle East, get involved in that Iraq situation. Is this the kind of thing you are talking about?

Regards, Brenden.

[robbyyoung]

Hi Robby,

I think we (as a country) did that when we let George Bush (a Dispensationalist) who viewed Gog and Magog as active in the Middle East, get involved in that Iraq situation. Is this the kind of thing you are talking about?

Regards, Brenden.

Hi Brenden,

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. God's Servants will do His bidding. Irregardless of their personal wickedness. God upholds the sanctity of the institution (government), this is no different than the institution of marriage, sinners get married, don't they? Well, sinners occupy government also. Yet, the sword is nevertheless a component of the institution.

God bless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired

[thrombomodulin]

Robby,

Are the rulers of Isis ordained by God per Romans 13? If not why not?
Pete

[Paidion]

Good question, Throm. And how about Hitler? Was his government ordained by God. Was it God's will for 6 million Jews to be starved to death or otherwise killed in horrible suffering? Was this God's judgment on the Jews? Stalin and his government killed even more than 6 million, but over a longer period of time. Were all the atrocities perpetuated under communist governments God's will and judgment?

Richard Wurmbrand who spent 14 years in a communist Romanian prison, said that communist governments were NOT ordained by God. He said that the passage so often quoted from Romans 13 indicates that the God-ordained authorities reward the righteous and punish the evildoers. But communist governments did the opposite. They punished the righteous and rewarded the evildoers.

[Paidion]

The second-century Christian writers were futurists. They believed that the Antichrist to come would be a Jewish person from the tribe of Dan.

Once when Art Katz (a much sought-after Jewish speaker who had become a Christian ) was visiting our home, I told him what the early Christian writers has said about Antichrist being from the tribe of Dan. He looked upset. He said that he thought the Antichrist would be a Muslim.

[robbyyoung]

Robby,

Are the rulers of Isis ordained by God per Romans 13? If not why not?
Pete

Hi Pete,

I think you guys are missing the point. THE INSTITUTION of government is what is ordained by God, not necessarily the Human Beings occupy the seat. Again, it is the same as the institution of marriage, where if a married couple destroys its purpose, it does not change the validity of the God ordained marriage institution, does it? Evil people who occupy government seats, and marriages, do not invalidate the righteous serving in these institutions God has ordained, do they? Of course not!

IMHO, Romans 13 cannot be anymore clearer concerning the matter. I couldn't wiggle my way around those passages if I tried, therefore, I'm not going to accuse the righteous along with the wicked, or God Himself, when He exercises His sovereignty in the matter, for Paul certainly does not and THE SWORD remains relevant.

God Bless.

[dizerner]

I've thought a lot about that, thrombomodulin. I believe one day the antichrist will use that scripture verse.

I believe one could argue that the only authority God backs up is one that meets the condition in the immediately following verse:

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil... do what is good and [they will praise you]

In other words, the moment an authority no longer fulfills that condition, it is no longer the "ordinance of God."

[robbyyoung]

I believe one could argue that the only authority God backs up is one that meets the condition in the immediately following verse:

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil... do what is good and [they will praise you

In other words, the moment an authority no longer fulfills that condition, it is no longer the "ordinance of God."

Hi dizerner,

One could argue this case, but it's a pretty weak claim against verse 1, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."

It doesn't matter if they praise you not. NO GOVERNING AUTHORITY EXIST without God establishing it. Clearly when Paul was writing Romans The Church was under persecution by both Roman and Jewish authorities to some extent. Yet Paul insists that God is THE AUTHORITY over what He established to rule over the affairs of men. Futhermore, these rulers, good or evil, will serve His purpose; as clearly seen in the 1st Century. IMO, I see no reason to make this a difficult passage to understand. God used "The Roman Sword" against the wickedness of Old Covenant Israel. Rome was the governing authority and yet God's ultimate authority validated the use of "that sword" for His purposes. Whether we live or die by the hands of these authorities, we should be comforted that there is but ONE AUTHORITY, and our faith should be in God, for His total sovereignty is only known by Him.

God Bless.

[dizerner]

If you're going to unequivocally claim all authorities are from God, you are also going to have to unequivocally claim rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior. But the latter is patently and demonstrably false. Elsewhere we are warned against an authority that will set himself up as above all other gods and demand worship. Do you think we should be in subjection to it? Because Revelations tells us that means damnation.

[TheEditor]

I think you're being a bit heavy-handed with this application Robby. We obey God as ruler. If the "higher powers" demanded all Christians submit to incarceration, should we show up and be duly processed (they being God's sword and all), or do we "flee" from such, per Jesus instructions?

Regards, Brenden.