Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

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psimmond
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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by psimmond » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:27 pm

So Homer if I understand your last post, you aren't saying that some (or most) of the 10 commandments aren't a part of Christ's law. Instead you're saying that some of them are no longer applicable; therefore, the 10 commandments as a unit shouldn't be receiving the emphasis that it does from NT believers. NT believers would do better to emphasize the SOM, right?

Steve7150,
Paul mentions a list of sins that would keep those who practiced them from inheriting the kingdom:
1Co 6:9-10 Don't you know that wicked people won't inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals, or thieves, those who are greedy or drunk, who use abusive language, or who rob people will not inherit the kingdom of God.
From this list it's easy to see how most of these show a lack of love or violate God's character. But what about drunkenness and homosexuality?

I would say drunkenness is a part of Christ's law because it shows a lack of self-control (greed)? And I would say that homosexuality is a part of Christ's law because it is a perversion of God's intent, but I don't really understand what it means to reverse them.

How do you reverse them?
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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jriccitelli
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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by jriccitelli » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:14 am

Do we 'keep' the Law of Christ?
No, we cannot love our neighbor as ourselves, (If you do let me know), but if we are 'in' Jesus we can love our neighbor, because He can, it is the same with the whole Law, it is kept 'in' Him.

So is there a penalty for not keeping the Law of Christ, yes;
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already? (John 3:18)

'What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. (Romans 7)

The Law puts us to death, that is its purpose. You must die 'before' you are born again, to neglect the Law is to neglect our own death. The Commandments must be known, displayed, and proclaimed (along with the Prophets).

God desired our righteousness, God desires that we not sin, the Grace of God compels 'us' rather than the penalty and punishment of Law, as it was for the Jew.
We are not Jews, they were our example though,the Law was not all for naught.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by jriccitelli » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:21 am

Seems to me that Jesus is God, and the 10 Commandments were given by God, so it should be no surprise that the Law of Christ and the Law of God are the same;

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. (Leviticus 19:18)
You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (Deuteronomy 6:5)

The only difference is that Jesus 'Christ' fulfilled His own Law, and so we do also 'in' Him, what we could not do otherwise.
It is as simple as that, I do not see why this is so hard to understand.

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psimmond
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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by psimmond » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:05 am

I'm sorry jriccitelli, I must be a tad dull because even though you say it's simple, I'm still struggling to understand.

Am I accurate in describing the law of Christ as "loving God with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself"? Or is this too simplistic or just plain wrong? Does the law of Christ include prohibitions against drunkenness, homosexual behavior, etc.?
Do we 'keep' the Law of Christ?
No, we cannot love our neighbor as ourselves, (If you do let me know), but if we are 'in' Jesus we can love our neighbor, because He can, it is the same with the whole Law, it is kept 'in' Him.
You're right I don't love as God does even though, as a follower of Jesus, I consider myself to be "in" him (abiding in him).
The only difference is that Jesus 'Christ' fulfilled His own Law, and so we do also 'in' Him, what we could not do otherwise.
So if I am "in" him, my failure to keep the law of Christ (due to inability) is overlooked because of the fact that I am in him and he fulfilled his own law. Is this what you're saying?

I suspect even though I can't love God with all of my heart, soul, mind, and strength and love my neighbor as myself, God still wants me to try, right? Because I want to remain "in" him, I should obey his command to love others as he has loved me (although I can't do it as perfectly), right?

And it seems that although I can't love at the level that Jesus says I should, I can avoid getting drunk. So if we are "in" Christ, does that mean we do the things we can do and we don't sweat the areas where we fall short because we remember that we are in a covenant of grace?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but as you can see, what's simple for you to understand is difficult for me :oops:
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen

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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by steve7150 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:07 am

From this list it's easy to see how most of these show a lack of love or violate God's character. But what about drunkenness and homosexuality?

I would say drunkenness is a part of Christ's law because it shows a lack of self-control (greed)? And I would say that homosexuality is a part of Christ's law because it is a perversion of God's intent, but I don't really understand what it means to reverse them.

How do you reverse them?








You can't reverse these therefore they are moral laws that endure. But ritual laws can be reversed and it wouldn't violate God's character. We don't stone people anymore for various offenses because God's character has room for the possibility of mercy and forgiveness if they repent.

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Re: Regarding Christians and the Ten Commandments

Post by jriccitelli » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:41 am

Yes and yes, God made 'love' so simple a child can grasp it, and yet love is as deep as the sea, and as hard to discover completely.
If you strive to know God you will grow to love God, to know is tied to love in John's cumulative epistle 1John;

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. (1John 2:3-6)

When we are in Him His Righteousness covers us, this is how we live, everything outside of Christ is death because it has all been judged.
Grace is the only way I could live, for I sin daily, and die daily. I live in perfect liberty, free from the Law, and the curse of the Law, but loving the Law because I see Christ is the law and in the Law, and in the Law was the sacrifice for sins.

'Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. (1John 2: 7-9)

(We do not stone people anymore because Christ took all the stoning and penalties of the Law on Himself, he being the Law also became the curse for us)

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