Three Modern Ancient Movements

[mikew]

There are three movements today that seem to have a similar motivation.
There's people like those here in TNP that basically hold to Orthodoxy but then see areas that need fixing.
Another group is the emergents, who try to get past the religious superficial meetings and get to the original meaning.
Then there's the Hebrew namer Torah people who seek back to the roots of Christianity with a return to Hebrew culture.

The fourth movement...
Ok. There are four movements today that seem to have a similar motivation.

There the TNP type people, and the emergents, then the Hebrew namers.
The fourth group would be those who are going to the ancient forms of Christianity, particularly the Eastern Orthodox.

I'm not so concerned with the actual numbers in each of these groups. Some of these may be overemphasized by making a movement out of a mole hill. But these all seem to have a common thread in that there is the effort or interest to go past the modern institutes of Christianity and return to the roots. The spirit of the age in Christianity seems to be that of looking for the roots, at least among those whom I encounter.

There are some caveats in the sense that many internet forums draw people together that are more actively interested in these topics of change. Also, such forums are the only type that capture my interest. So I am not really in a position to see the whole picture. Of course, if one considers the Megachurches -- well these may be a mass culture movement of little spiritual significance -- I dunno. I see the Megachurches more just as a large crowd wherein only a fraction of people are actually believers.

The modern movements therefore share the interest of returning to the ancient roots. Is this an error of my perception or is this the spirit of the age?

I consider my interests in theology as similar of others around TNP, though I'm a newbie here. But people here seem to hold to Orthodoxy as a starting point yet see flaws in the foundation -- except we aren't seeing the real foundation, only the floors built over the ruins -- but under it all is the real foundation, laid by the Apostles and Prophets. Maybe many here seek the natural organic church with the idea of just sharing lives together (something I still only encounter more in expectation than in practice).

Among the emergents (sorry I forget the best term here) they come out of the post modern philosophical standpoint that may see it impossible to understand through language what the real Christianity is about. At the same time those of the younger generation also seek more of a community experience and involvement in each other's lives -- this is where I have seen a common goal between my expectation and those of the younger generation emergents. Therefore, it can be said that these folk seek to understand Christianity from its roots, to get past the cultural and time barriers in order to find the original. A problem does occur, though, in that these folk often seek to shed the Orthodoxy framework (or never could see Orthodoxy as a solid position) before the exploration of doctrine -- Such would seem to be a significant disadvantage in a Christian walk.

So another group, that seems popular at least in various internet forums (and I had started hearing mention of "Yeshua" in addition to "Jesus" on Christian talk radio) are the Hebrew namers or Torah believers. (Maybe the closest I have come to being a Hebrew namer is that I have thought that Bible translations maybe should speak of Yahweh when the actual name of God is in the original language.) These groups apparently want to follow Christ but also are attracted to some sense of Hebrew roots. Their interest then is focused on a "return" to cultural elements.

Then finally, it seems that interest in the oldest Christian institutes has increased. Mainly the shift I have seen is toward the Eastern Orthodox -- again I may just be seeing a narrow picture of reality. I would imagine that the attraction comes from an interest to return to the ancient roots of Christianity to regain the "real" experience. So there still can be seen the same spirit of such people shared with the TNP group (and sorry if I have mis- characterized specific people or the general type of people here), a return to roots.

What especially appears odd in associating these movements to a common spirit lies in the fact that these groups usually end up with opposite conclusions. It seems so unreasonable to emphasize more complex liturgy when scripture (essentially the New Testament) shows no example of such organized and regulated religious activity.

Maybe I'm old enough to have adapted some concepts of the Jesus Movement and the emphasis on nature and the natural. The aspects of Christianity that seem most critical are those that promote kind of a natural way of life, a life based on the new nature in Christ, full of freedom and simplicity. In such concepts I also envision the time when Adam simply walked in the garden with God. There was no liturgy, there was no altar, and no church building.

It seems that God has planned for a change that will bring Christianity back to her roots and at the same time to her better advancement. Whatever happens out of this we can expect that it is to God's glory and His purpose. We may even have growth pains, some of this has been expressed in the various posts here. Overall though we live in an interesting era.

[RND]

So another group, that seems popular at least in various internet forums (and I had started hearing mention of "Yeshua" in addition to "Jesus" on Christian talk radio) are the Hebrew namers or Torah believers. (Maybe the closest I have come to being a Hebrew namer is that I have thought that Bible translations maybe should speak of Yahweh when the actual name of God is in the original language.) These groups apparently want to follow Christ but also are attracted to some sense of Hebrew roots. Their interest then is focused on a "return" to cultural elements.

"Yahweh" is the verbal pronunciation the "tetragrammaton" of the four letters YHVH (or YHWH) in which God's name was written because it was considered "unutterable." Yeshua is the proper Aramaic name of the Messiah. Whenever we see the capital letters "LORD" in the Torah and Tanakh we should automatically think "YHWH."

However, I kind of think you might want to re-examine the language of:

These groups apparently want to follow Christ but also are attracted to some sense of Hebrew roots.

I don't think it's proper to assume that just because someone is interested in their Hebrew roots, and understanding the Torah and Tanakh fully that somehow they "apparently want to follow Christ." I know Messianics that are better "Christians" than "Christians!"

[mikew]

However, I kind of think you might want to re-examine the language of:

These groups apparently want to follow Christ but also are attracted to some sense of Hebrew roots.

I don't think it's proper to assume that just because someone is interested in their Hebrew roots, and understanding the Torah and Tanakh fully that somehow they "apparently want to follow Christ." I know Messianics that are better "Christians" than "Christians!"

My tendency is to see that people can become true believers whereever the gospel is shared or heard. Some groups I suspect the percentages of believers to be less.

People aren't saved by doctrine --which is good, since no one has all doctrine correct anyhow. I am rather cautious or reserved in giving an endorsement to groups and people that have a extreme challenge to the general Orthodox framework.

But I still think there are some saved people among those who seek to be under Moses' Law.

And similar to what you said about Messianics, there also atheists that are "better Christians" than Christians, if it were based on my evaluation of some of their lives.

[RND]

My tendency is to see that people can become true believers whereever the gospel is shared or heard. Some groups I suspect the percentages of believers to be less.

People aren't saved by doctrine --which is good, since no one has all doctrine correct anyhow. I am rather cautious or reserved in giving an endorsement to groups and people that have a extreme challenge to the general Orthodox framework.

The general framework of Christian belief was Torah based for more than 300 years after the death of Christ until Constantine outlawed Judaism and all hell broke loose from that point on. Messianics tend to be as close to those "original Christians" as one could possibly hope. Today's Christianity is scared to death of anything in this regard simply because they have been led astray down the wrong path.

But I still think there are some saved people among those who seek to be under Moses' Law.

The Mosaic law is a blessing, not a curse.

And similar to what you said about Messianics, there also atheists that are "better Christians" than Christians, if it were based on my evaluation of some of their lives.

Evidence of the "law" written on their hearts.