THREE LIES PREACHERS TELL EVERY SUNDAY

Post by **_gracemonger** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:09 pm

The prophecy made by the Apostle Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1-5 has come to pass in our day. All over the world men, and women, and boys, and girls gather in religious assemblies. Some are very solemn. Others can barely be distinguished from dance hall revelry. But they gather in the name of Christ to worship God. They read the Bible, say their prayers, invoke God’s blessing, and give their money. They are devoted. They are sincere. But they are lost! They have faith; but theirs is a false faith. They have hope; but their hope is a delusion. Having been led and taught by blind and ignorant men, “They will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts...they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears...They turn away their ears from the truth and (have been) turned into fables.”

I am not talking about Hindus, Buddhist, and Muslims. I am talking about men and women who profess to know, worship, trust, and serve the living God by faith in his Son Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit. I am talking about our friends, relatives, and neighbors. I am talking about many of you. You have turned away from the truth and have been turned unto fables. Do I have your attention? If you will pay attention to the Word of God, God just might teach you something.

You know what a fable is. It is a brief story, dreamed up by a man to teach a moral, ethical lesson, but factually it is a lie. Here are three common religious fables, dreamed up by men to teach people moral principles. They are universally embraced, proclaimed, and defended. These three fables are constantly presented throughout the city, across this country and around the world in this day of man centered religion as the very truth of God. But they are, in fact, lies which are damning to the souls of all who believe them.

We hear from every quarter that “God loves everyone.” You can read it on church signs, bumper stickers, and bridges all across this country. But it is a bald faced lie. God does not love everyone. He never has. Nowhere does the Bible say or imply that he does. If God loves everybody, he has a mighty strange way of showing it. Try preaching that those who perished in the flood, the sons of Korah, the damned in hell. They know better! The fact is, the Bible plainly tells us that God does not love everyone. Have you never read in his Word where God said, he hates all workers of iniquity and that he is angry with the wicked every day? Did you never read, “Jacob have I loved; but Esau have I hated?” (Psa. 11:5; 7:11; Rom. 9:13). “God is love.” We rejoice in that. But God’s love is in Christ. In the Bible there is no assurance of God’s love given to anyone apart from faith in Christ.

Like you, I have heard all my life that “The Lord Jesus Christ died to redeem and save all people.” There is no doctrine in all the world more blasphemous than that. To say that Christ died for all people without exception is to say that he died for multitudes for whom he refused even to pray. Read it for yourself in John 17:9 and 20. To say that he died for all without exception is to say that he died in vain for the multitudes of the damned! That is blasphemy. It is a blatant declaration that Jesus Christ is a failure! If he s a failure, he is not God and is not fit to be trusted. The Bible nowhere teaches or implies that Christ died for, redeemed, or came to save those multitudes who are at last lost in hell. Those for whom Christ died shall never die. The Son of God redeemed all whom he came to redeem; and he shall save all whom he came to save.

We are told by religious leaders everywhere that “The Holy Spirit of God is doing all that he can to save all people.” You know that is not true. There are multitudes to whom the Spirit of God has never even sent his Word. The Bible says nothing of the Spirit trying to reprove, trying to convince, or trying to regenerate. The Bible declares, “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.” Have you been turned away from the truth? Have you been turned unto fables? May God be pleased now to turn you to the truth and cause you to receive the love of the truth, for Christ’s sake.

AMEN.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:27 pm

We hear from every quarter that “God loves everyone.” You can read it on church signs, bumper stickers, and bridges all across this country. But it is a bald faced lie.

God so loved the world .... John 3:16

Like you, I have heard all my life that “The Lord Jesus Christ died to redeem and save all people.” There is no doctrine in all the world more blasphemous than that. To say that Christ died for all people without exception is to say that he died for multitudes for whom he refused even to pray.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.
2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

God not only died for all people, but He is the Savior of all people:

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe

We are told by religious leaders everywhere that “The Holy Spirit of God is doing all that he can to save all people.” You know that is not true.

If you didn't want a certain thing, and had a chance of preventing it, would you not make an effort to do so? If you wanted a particular thing, and had a chance of getting it, would you not make an effort to get it?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

If the Lord does not want any to perish, surely He is doing all He can to prevent them from doing so. If He wishes all to come to repentance, surely He is doing all He can to bring them to repentance. However, He never forces anyone. He respects the free will of man. Having free will is perhaps the main way in which man was created in the image of God.

Post by **_SoaringEagle** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:32 pm

Gracemonger,

A more appropriate place for this would be in the Calvinism/Arminian thread. However, I kind of sense that you want more of an on-line audience that will read your posts, so you posted it here. I must caution you though, your views will be challenged. 8)

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:49 pm

It is a blatant declaration that Jesus Christ is a failure! If he s a failure, he is not God and is not fit to be trusted. The Bible nowhere teaches or implies that Christ died for, redeemed, or came to save those multitudes who are at last lost in hell. Those for whom Christ died shall never die. The Son of God redeemed all whom he came to redeem; and he shall save all whom he came to save.

Good point, is Christ the "savior of the world" and did he "die for the sins of the world" as scripture says and yet in this life very few will be saved. Therefore for Christ to be successful there leaves two alternatives , either limited atonement or that after death in and through the lake of fire many may be saved. In 1st Tim it says everyman will have Christ preached to him in due time, but what is due time? In this life countless multitudes have never heard of Christ or have heard mistruths about him yet every man will hear the truth. So when and where? Why is it assumed that judgement leaves no room for repentence for probation for forgiveness for reconciliation. The original greek word allows for all of this yet the Christian church doctrines shaped by the RCC used hell as a sledgehammer as long as people could'nt have access to the bible.

Post by **_SoaringEagle** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:03 pm

The prophecy made by the Apostle Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1-5 has come to pass in our day. All over the world men, and women, and boys, and girls gather in religious assemblies. Some are very solemn. Others can barely be distinguished from dance hall revelry. But they gather in the name of Christ to worship God. They read the Bible, say their prayers, invoke God’s blessing, and give their money. They are devoted. They are sincere. But they are lost! They have faith; but theirs is a false faith. They have hope; but their hope is a delusion. Having been led and taught by blind and ignorant men, “They will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts...they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears...They turn away their ears from the truth and (have been) turned into fables.”

Sounds true so far. Let's see where you go with this...

I am not talking about Hindus, Buddhist, and Muslims. I am talking about men and women who profess to know, worship, trust, and serve the living God by faith in his Son Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit. I am talking about our friends, relatives, and neighbors. I am talking about many of you. You have turned away from the truth and have been turned unto fables. Do I have your attention?

Is this a sermon, because I am afraid that you do not know "many of us" nor do you know me. Perhaps you have talked with a few of us here and there, and you are using a new name. Nevertheless, you still do not know many of us. You do have some of our attention.

If you will pay attention to the Word of God, God just might teach you something.

Remember that in your first paragraph you are talking about people your presume to be lost. Then you say that that's many of us, and you tell us to pay attention. What for? What if out of the many of us that you presume to be lost, there are those whom God does not love (presuming your views are true for the sake of argument), and he chooses not to save us in the way you view He does? How could we "pay attention" and why should we? It would be to no avail. Don't forget we are "totally depraved," and that the effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of our personality -- our thinking, our emotions, and our will. Though we aren't necessarily intensely sinful, but sin has extended to our entire being. As a result of this, we being unregenerate (unsaved) are dead in his sins and you know a dead man can't respond to words spoken. Without the power of the Holy Spirit, we are blind and deaf to the message of the gospel. We can never come to this knowledge of God you speak of without God making us alive first. So why should we pay attention to the Word of God?

We hear from every quarter that “God loves everyone.” You can read it on church signs, bumper stickers, and bridges all across this country. But it is a bald faced lie. God does not love everyone. He never has. Nowhere does the Bible say or imply that he does.

Yes God does love everyone. Only Hyper-Calvinist's and Atheists that presume the bible to be true for the sake of argument believe otherwise. Such people are people with a warped and twisted mind. Such people could never sincerely sing the classic hymn sung to many young children throughout the seven continents: Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. Red and yellow black and white, they are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world. If one does not believe that God does love everyone, then they'd be hypocritical to sing and ought not too.

God loved Cain, who was of the Wicked One, by telling him that if he "does well" he would be accepted. This of course, was a genuine opportunity for Cain to "do well" and be accepted among the redeemed, yet Cain did not take advantage of this bonifide proposition.

In 2 Chronicles 24:19, The sent prophets to people with the desire of bringing them back Him, but these people would not listen and testified against the prophets. If God brings salvation in such a way as you propose gracemonger, why weren't they elected and affected by His irresistable grace and call? Same with 2 Chronicles 36:15. The Lord God sent warnings to people by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But these people mocked God's messengers, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets. As a result, the wrath of the Lord arose against these people, till there was no remedy.

What about the rich young ruler we read of in Mark 10:17-22? This explicitly says that Jesus loved Him. Can you say this man did not have a choice to inherit life, gracemonger? Jesus loved Him, and if He truly did, then He would not have wanted Him to make the decision he did. He had a chance, but blew it.

If God loves everybody, he has a mighty strange way of showing it. Try preaching that those who perished in the flood, the sons of Korah, the damned in hell. They know better! The fact is, the Bible plainly tells us that God does not love everyone.

"My Spirit shall not always strive with man" declared God in the days of Noah (Gen 6:3). If the men of Noah's generation were foreordained to damnation, as Calvinism teaches, and were people whom God did not love as hyper-calvinism teaches, in what sense did the Spirit strive with them, since they were fulfilling their foreordained role in refusing the testimony of Noah? 2 Pet. 2:5 - God did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; Who was Noah preaching to? It was those who weren't spared and were punished by the flood because God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. If no man, either elect or reprobate, can resist the will of God, against whom or what is the Spirit striving when He "strives with man"? If there is in man no faculty of decision which God takes into account, any striving of the Spirit that fails to bring man to submission proves God incapable of performance. Any "striving" not intended to bring man to submission would be farce and prove God hopelessly insincere. If decision rests with God alone, any striving at all is totally phony and superfuous.

Post by **_Micah** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:22 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:Good point, is Christ the "savior of the world" and did he "die for the sins of the world" as scripture says and yet in this life very few will be saved. Therefore for Christ to be successful there leaves two alternatives , either limited atonement or that after death in and through the lake of fire many may be saved. In 1st Tim it says everyman will have Christ preached to him in due time, but what is due time? In this life countless multitudes have never heard of Christ or have heard mistruths about him yet every man will hear the truth. So when and where? Why is it assumed that judgement leaves no room for repentence for probation for forgiveness for reconciliation. The original greek word allows for all of this yet the Christian church doctrines shaped by the RCC used hell as a sledgehammer as long as people could'nt have access to the bible.

Just curious Steve how do you interpret Luke 16:19-31? If you have already answered this please link me to it and I will read it. Thanks.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:01 pm

Just curious Steve how do you interpret Luke 16:19-31? If you have already answered this please link me to it and I will read it. Thanks.

Micah, I believe it's not a doctrine of hell but the last parable in a series of 5 in which Jesus is addressing the Pharisees. Jesus describes the rich man in exactly the clothes of the high priest , he says they look to father Abraham. Who looks to father Abraham? He describes a flame without fire, where else do we see a flame with no fire? Nowhere else which means the flame symbolises light. The phrase "Abraham's bosum" is non biblical but from a rabbinical stories ,so Jesus is using their language to prophecy to them that as long as they looked to father Abraham for salvation they will be separated from God by an impassable gulf and they will be tormented by this separation. Jesus said "they have Moses and the prophets" so this is directed to either the Pharisees only or the jewish nation as a whole.
It's true Jesus did say the rich man was in hades but there is no Abraham's bosum in hades and often a parable has only one point and the surrounding descriptions are not really the subject of the parable.

Post by **_SoaringEagle** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:43 pm

It would be nice if gracemonger would come back and defend his views. Yet I get the impression that he/she only wants to send messages instead of dialoguing with us.

Post by **_Micah** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:41 pm

STEVE7150 wrote: He describes a flame without fire, where else do we see a flame with no fire? Nowhere else which means the flame symbolises light.

Thanks for the response Steve. If there is no fire than what is the symbolic meaning of this part:

and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue

Post by **_schoel** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:05 pm

SoaringEagle wrote:It would be nice if gracemonger would come back and defend his views. Yet I get the impression that he/she only wants to send messages instead of dialoguing with us.

It would be good for him to respond as both yourself and Paidion have deconstructed his assertions. While his statements seemed good at face value, they apparently contradict one another (attempting to warn those God intends to damn), and contradict the openly plain meaning of Scripture (John 3:16).

Thanks to both of you as I found your responses educational and edifying.

Dave