Crown Financial Ministries

Post by **_Paul** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:55 am

I would like to hear others' opinions about Crown (www.crown.org)
Have any of you been involved or have any direct experience with this ministry?

Post by **_Les Wright** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:43 pm

Hi Paul,

I don't have a lot of experience with Crown, but I did go to one of their leadership training seminars (which cost quite a bit by the way, my church paid for me and two elder/pasters to go, I am not an elder/official leader), and I did read through some of their materials, including:

* a book written by the groups original founder
* a workbook that is supposed to be used in small group format

My comments, as a Christian and former financial advisor (I failed miserably to make a living at it), are:

* in general, you'll find the content fairly typical for evangelicals re: money issues
* many on this forum won't agree with all the content as they are pro life insurance, tend towards debt is sin, encourage saving towards retirement, are pro-tithe etc..
* I found the book a pretty good read, but when it came to the group workbook material, it seemed a little weak and in my opinion when they tried to proof-text their conservative fiscal strategies (like tithing, saving, etc..)
* I think the materials could probably help a Christian come to some understanding that they are to be stewards of what God has given them
* A strength is that it appears very practical, taking people from theological understanding of money to making a budget for example.
* One thing I really didn't like (this is from my memory and may have changed, who knows?) is you have to pay to go to the leadership training in order to lead a small group (I think), otherwise you break their contract (I think), AND the small group format was that if somebody didn't prepare their homework, they could come to the meeting, but could not participate (i.e. voice their opinion, they had to remain silent)

Thats my 3 cents.

in Him,
Les

Post by **_Paul** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:39 pm

Thanks for your fair and balanced synopsis, Les. I have had the same reaction to some of the points you mentioned. Financial advisory is a tough, tough business! My training is in finance, but I work in an entirely different area. I don't think I would have done well at it either.

The reason I ask is that I'm planning on leading a small group study (I've been to the leader training too). I got involved early this year, having felt a calling to help move people (including myself) away from "affluenza" and toward a life of stewardship for Christ.

After I got involved in this ministry, I found thenarrowpath.com as I was researching for a Sunday school class I was teaching. On the surface, there is nothing contradictory about what I've learned listening to Steve (and others on this forum) and the principles taught by Crown. But there's something not exactly sitting well with me about the way Crown does things. I am going to think through some of the things I like and struggle with and post them soon.

I am new to this forum, and I really find it edifying and challenging reading what various people have to say on this subject and others.

Post by **_Paul** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:52 am

I can’t find anything in the Bible study materials that I don’t fundamentally agree with, doctrinally. Basically, the message that most will probably agree with is this:

- God owns it all – we are just stewards. Not a “90-10” partnership.

- The goal of getting rich is wrong, but being rich (a VERY relative term, and we all must be careful about judging others lest we be judged) is not, as long as one is a diligent steward seeking to serve God’s purposes as best he understands. This is something we must all work through with our Master by continuous prayer and study.

- Eternal perspective – we will one day (when we see Jesus) be rewarded in direct proportion to our faithfulness as stewards in this life.

- Consumer debt is to be avoided for many reasons

There will likely be widespread opinions about this:

- Home and investment debt is tolerable within reason.

- God provides for us to some extent by giving us the intelligence to provide for ourselves, and that as long as we acknowledge the source of our ability and intelligence, we are not acting with an absence of faith if we do a little prudent financial planning. This includes life insurance and retirement savings. Neither should be done with a goal of ultimately leading a rich, flabby lifestyle, but so as not to be a burden on others when we are unable to continue earning our way. Some sacrifice now, IMHO, is just plain wise. For those in the forum who do no future personal planning, and in faith give it all away to those in need here and now, God bless you. We all have different callings, and perhaps those of us with different marching orders will save enough to help meet your future needs as well as our own. God IS faithful and WILL provide for His children in ways unforeseen.

- Investments should be prudent as to build steadily through time – no “get rich quick” schemes. Again, the purpose is future provision, not personal wealth.

- Tithing. If you read the articles on their website, you’ll get different views. However, the lesson books never say it is a NT requirement (Steve’s article on this is great btw), but still refer to it in some of their literature as “God’s tithe”. They aren’t insistent that the “local church” receive a “tithe”, but this is the view of many in the ministry. I agree with Steve, and when leading a small group will share his article.

I guess my major concern is the “MO” of the organization. I am a businessman and former naval officer, so I am very accustomed to machine-like organization, goal setting, standardization and quality assurance. Crown Ministries also uses this systematic approach. From what I have seen, it seems to produce good fruit. But personally, in this context, I am not quite comfortable with such a rigid format that requires folks to buy $40 materials to learn about God’s word regarding money and material possessions. I have spoken with many who praise the program because of its standardized format. Many feel that paying for the materials makes people take the training more seriously. Maybe I just need to get over it and get with the program because it really seems to be effective in changing people’s lives. I have thought about leading my own financial Bible study using Steve’s “free” materials (and the Bible), and collecting a $40 donation from everyone for thenarrowpath.com

Another concern, that I think perhaps Steve might have, is that the change it produces in people may not be "radical" enough. That it, it very practically teaches folks how to budget, stay out of debt, and start "tithing", but that true transformation in the heart is less likely to occur with such a "cookie cutter" approach.

Please pray for me as I seek the best, most effective approach in this endeavor.

Post by **_Allyn** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:56 am

Good job Paul. Well said and heart felt.