Is Allah a different God?

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seer
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by seer » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:56 pm

Paidion wrote:Catholics say that all of these things are not idols, but REMINDERS or REPRESENTATIONS of spiritual realities.

But even if statues, prayer beads, etc. were idols, would that mean that Catholics worship a different God? It does not appear that they worship the true God "as an idol".

In the case of Muslims, they are quite adamant about there being one true God, and as far as I know, they do not portray Him by means of statues or other symbols. So how could they worship Him "as an idol"? I do think they are a way off base in their understanding of God's character.

As I see it, understanding God's character is very important. We need to see Him as He really is in order to worship Him and serve Him in the manner He desires.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
If I follow your logic Paidion then I doubt that Baal or Molech were idols... The pagans were just worshipping the one true God as best they understood him...
Thanks to the human heart by which we live, thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. Wordsworth

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Paidion
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by Paidion » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:17 pm

If I follow your logic Paidion then I doubt that Baal or Molech were idols... The pagans were just worshipping the one true God as best they understood him...seer
I don't follow your logic, Seer. Those two are clearly stated to be other gods, as other the "gods of the nations". None of the nations of that day recognized a unique God who was the creator of all things, such as do the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
Paidion

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steve
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by steve » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:58 am

I'm going to take Paidion's side on this one.

The Athenians were, according to Paul, ignorantly worshiping the same God that Paul came to preach to them (Acts 17:23). There is great significance in the qualifier "ignorantly." People may perish for lack of knowledge, as did the Jews—though the gods they were worshiping may have included Yahweh (Hos.4:6).

The case of the Jews is interesting, in that the God who revealed Himself at Sinai was, arguably, the same "triune" God that most Christians acknowledge. However, the Jews did not recognize Him as a trinity, as most Christians do. Nonetheless, when they worshiped Him with proper motives, He accepted their worship. Now, either the Jews were wrong in not seeing God as a trinity, or else the Christians are wrong in so seeing Him. In any case, both can be said to have worshiped acceptably, though having differing views of the trinity.

It should be noted, also, that the Athenians were not worshiping an idol (an image) as a representation of the "unknown god." They had an "altar" as a memorial or tribute "to the unknown god" (Acts 17:23), upon which they apparently offered occasional sacrifices. There is no record of their having an idol representing this "god." Thus, though one might argue that their sacrifices were not offered according to the Jewish or Christian revelation, and therefore may have been unacceptable, the God they were offering them to was the real God. They were not "worshiping Him as an idol." This may be the case with the Muslims as well.

If we argue that it was a demon, and not an angel, that appeared to Mohammed (as I believe to be the case), there is no reason to insist that this demon was not talking about the real God. Satan was talking about the real God when he lied to Eve about HIs character and nature (Gen.3:1-5). The Galatians Christians were also "bewitched" by false teachers (Gal.3:1), but there is no indication that these deceivers were advocating the worship of a different God than the one the Jews and Christians believed in. The devil may have as much interest in misrepresenting the terms of man's acceptance by God as in misidentifying which God is being misrepresented.
Last edited by steve on Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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darinhouston
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:14 am

Steve wrote: The case of the Jews is interesting, in that the God who revealed Himself at Sinai was, arguably, the same "triune" God that most Christians acknowledge. However, the Jews did not recognize Him as a trinity, as most Christians do. Nonetheless, when they worshiped Him with proper motives, He accepted their worship. Now, either the Jews were wrong in not seeing God as a trinity, or else the Christians are wrong in so seeing Him. In any case, both can be said to have worshiped acceptably, though having differing views of the trinity.
If true for the Jews then (and I tend to agree), then on what basis would that not be true for the Jews today ? If they "reject" our triune view of God (and hence Jesus' divinity) then could the same be still said about their worship as acceptable? I think I see a distinction between: (1) a B.C. Jew who was ignorant of the triune nature of God, (2) that of the A.D. Jew who accepts the Messiahship of Christ and His message of salvation, but like the JWs may disagree on His divinity and hence the inclusion of Jesus in the trinity; and (3) the Jew who worship God today with proper motives who completely rejects Christ as being either Messiah or God incarnate (more like the Muslim, I guess).

How would you distinguish these?

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steve
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by steve » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:28 pm

Darin wrote:

"If true for the Jews then (and I tend to agree), then on what basis would that not be true for the Jews today ? If they "reject" our triune view of God (and hence Jesus' divinity) then could the same be still said about their worship as acceptable?"

I did not mean to imply that worship is "acceptable" just because it is the correct God that worshipers have in mind. Therefore, I could say that the Jews and Muslims (and Jehovah's Witnesses) may be worshiping the real God without committing myself concerning the acceptability of their worship.

If you are asking whether the Jews' ignorance of the trinity may be as excusable by (and acceptable to) God now as it was prior to Christ's coming, I cannot say. A Jew who has never heard of Christ (or never heard correct things about Christ) might, in the sight of God, be in the same position as one who had not known Him before the incarnation, because He had not yet come. So far as their exposure to the true Jesus goes, perhaps, He still has not yet come.

Many Jews, Muslims, and others who reject a representation of Jesus that is a false representation—say, for instance, those in the Middle Ages, who rejected the monstrous Catholic representations of God—may be rejecting "another Jesus," and not the true one. Perhaps, were He correctly represented to them, some of them would be inclined to believe in Him. God only knows. We should not forget that Paul indicated that one actually ought to reject "another Jesus" (2 Cor.11:4). It would be interesting if, when we get to heaven, we find there many who rejected the "Jesus" that was represented to them by Christendom, because they knew in their hearts that the true Messiah must be more like—well, like Jesus really is.

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Suzana
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by Suzana » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:42 pm

darinhouston wrote:
... If they "reject" our triune view of God (and hence Jesus' divinity)....
Slight digesssion: Isn't it possible to reject the triune view of God (as traditionally held & explained), but not Jesus' divinity?
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TK
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by TK » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:15 pm

Suzana wrote:
darinhouston wrote:
... If they "reject" our triune view of God (and hence Jesus' divinity)....
Slight digesssion: Isn't it possible to reject the triune view of God (as traditionally held & explained), but not Jesus' divinity?
yes- just ask Paidion. I believe this is his position; he can of course explain it more exactly if he wishes.

TK

paulespino
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by paulespino » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:43 pm

Very interesting question Paidion.

It is possible that the God of Islam and the God of Christian is the same if the attributes of Allah is "almost" the same

with the attributes of Yahweh. Does not have to be exactly the same but almost the same.

Now, if our God is the same with Allah does that mean that they are save. My answer is no becuase it is through Christ

alone that we are save.

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darinhouston
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:23 pm

Steve wrote:Many Jews, Muslims, and others who reject a representation of Jesus that is a false representation—say, for instance, those in the Middle Ages, who rejected the monstrous Catholic representations of God—may be rejecting "another Jesus," and not the true one. Perhaps, were He correctly represented to them, some of them would be inclined to believe in Him. God only knows. We should not forget that Paul indicated that one actually ought to reject "another Jesus" (2 Cor.11:4). It would be interesting if, when we get to heaven, we find there many who rejected the "Jesus" that was represented to them by Christendom, because they knew in their hearts that the true Messiah must be more like—well, like Jesus really is.
This is an interesting point I've never considered before. I like it, and hope it's true. I certainly see no reason why it "couldn't" be true. Wouldn't it be an interesting justice if those who reject the Christ as represented by a televangelist should be with Him in eternity and the televangelist who represented Him falsely is not !

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darinhouston
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Re: Is Allah a different God?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:26 pm

TK wrote:
Suzana wrote:
darinhouston wrote:
... If they "reject" our triune view of God (and hence Jesus' divinity)....
Slight digesssion: Isn't it possible to reject the triune view of God (as traditionally held & explained), but not Jesus' divinity?
yes- just ask Paidion. I believe this is his position; he can of course explain it more exactly if he wishes.

TK
And my personal favorite -- couldn't you believe in Jesus' divinity and membership in the godhead along with the Father but deny that the Holy Spirit is a third "person" of the Trinity. (binity?) Though I've had proofs that convince me (for the most part -- addressed in this forum as well) with respect to the personhood of the H.S., I find it a particularly more ambiguous position in Scripture than the divinity of the Son, and it is almost NEVER mentioned while doubts as to the Trinity almost always center around the membership of Jesus.

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