(an) lds on: The Fall (unplugged).
(an) lds on: The Fall (unplugged).
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Last edited by Jill on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Fall (unplugged).
Hi Karen 
Yes, apparently that's what happened, and it doesn't seem to be surprising to me, after all God told them not to eat.
Wait a sec. Before you said they were changed because they ate, now you're saying it was because they were lied to. I think they were changed because Eve bought into the lie and ate, not just because they were lied to, or even that she believed the lie.
I'm having a little trouble following you here, but don't take that personally, I have that trouble often. You say you are "not finding 'The Fall' in Genesis." Isn't what you just described, their eyes being opened and they became ashamed, the fall? Or are you thinking the Fall is "original sin" and "torture?" If it's the latter, I could agree with you, I guess. I'm still thinking through what original sin is about, and torture, if you mean eternal torture of the damned, isn't what I believe right now.
The original mistake, eh? Like, we all make mistakes and this was just a pretty good example of one? Do we now know what to do? Everyone? I'm not too sure of that.
Here's what I think we should do. It's from Phillippians 2: 5-8
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
See that part that says, "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped...?" I think that's exactly what Eve thought, that equality with God was a thing to be grasped.
Look at what the serpent told her. It's from Genesis 3: 4-5
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
So I think that Adam and Eve lost it all; death entered, their eyes were opened, and they were ashamed, because Eve thought being equal with God was a thing to be grasped and went for it and disobeyed. That I see as a huge fall. The Fall.
I think having the mind of Christ and being obedient, which is the opposite of grasping at equality with God, is the right thing to do, but, unfortunately, it's not the natural thing for us to do. It's not something we do by instinct, so not everyone just knows to do it.
Do you mean we die, so we need Jesus Christ? If so, yeah, you're right.
Is your question about why would people so many generations removed from Adam and Eve be under a sentence for eternal torture because of that sin from so long ago?
Since I got removed from my church almost a year ago for not attending enough, I don't know what to say I am. I'll just answer as myself and consider this just a conversation between people.karenprtlnd wrote:Just a notice on my own and Not an authorized inquirery statement. But I am LDS.
In the book of genisis of the old testament, I read that eve had been lied to u]. That the old serpent re-explained something to eve that made eating the fruit seem the smart. They ate. A change then occured. Because they ate, a change occured, a result from eating.
Yes, apparently that's what happened, and it doesn't seem to be surprising to me, after all God told them not to eat.
Thier eyes were opened, and they became ashamed. For having been lied to?
Wait a sec. Before you said they were changed because they ate, now you're saying it was because they were lied to. I think they were changed because Eve bought into the lie and ate, not just because they were lied to, or even that she believed the lie.
I am not finding "The Fall" in Genisis.
I'm having a little trouble following you here, but don't take that personally, I have that trouble often. You say you are "not finding 'The Fall' in Genesis." Isn't what you just described, their eyes being opened and they became ashamed, the fall? Or are you thinking the Fall is "original sin" and "torture?" If it's the latter, I could agree with you, I guess. I'm still thinking through what original sin is about, and torture, if you mean eternal torture of the damned, isn't what I believe right now.
(The original mistake maybe. But now we know what to do don't we?).
The original mistake, eh? Like, we all make mistakes and this was just a pretty good example of one? Do we now know what to do? Everyone? I'm not too sure of that.
Here's what I think we should do. It's from Phillippians 2: 5-8
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
See that part that says, "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped...?" I think that's exactly what Eve thought, that equality with God was a thing to be grasped.
Look at what the serpent told her. It's from Genesis 3: 4-5
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
So I think that Adam and Eve lost it all; death entered, their eyes were opened, and they were ashamed, because Eve thought being equal with God was a thing to be grasped and went for it and disobeyed. That I see as a huge fall. The Fall.
I think having the mind of Christ and being obedient, which is the opposite of grasping at equality with God, is the right thing to do, but, unfortunately, it's not the natural thing for us to do. It's not something we do by instinct, so not everyone just knows to do it.
We die. = Jesus Christ. Ok.
Do you mean we die, so we need Jesus Christ? If so, yeah, you're right.
But a story of "original sin" and "torture"? What is this...
Is your question about why would people so many generations removed from Adam and Eve be under a sentence for eternal torture because of that sin from so long ago?
Re: The Fall (unplugged).
Hi Karen, I think these verses shed a little light on the garden story.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
It would appear from this passage that Eve was "lied to", or more properly deceived. However, it says Adam was not deceived. He ate of the fruit knowing full well that it was disobedient to God. That's why in other places in the bible "the fall" is attributed to "Adam's Sin" and not eve's.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
It would appear from this passage that Eve was "lied to", or more properly deceived. However, it says Adam was not deceived. He ate of the fruit knowing full well that it was disobedient to God. That's why in other places in the bible "the fall" is attributed to "Adam's Sin" and not eve's.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.