Did Jesus promote Murder (Luke 19:27)

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_Christopher
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:35 pm
Location: Gladstone, Oregon

Post by _Christopher » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:42 am

Hi Paidion,

I'm back now (intermittently at least) :D .

you wrote:
And what of verse 29 (which you quoted)?

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Instead of receiving a hundred fold in relatives and lands, the leading disciples of the day (with the exception of John), as well as most of the others, received a cruel death at the hands of their enemies.
True, you could look at it that way. Or you could take Jesus' words (as I do) to be describing something more qualitative rather than literal. I count myself to have received more than a hundred fold of what I've forsaken in this life by following Jesus. It's not of the same type, but the things I gave up cannot begin to compare with the rewards I now have in following Jesus, and the paradox is that it's a tougher life.

Also, consider this:

1. Who did Jesus describe as His "mother" and "brothers"? (Matt 12:46, Luke 8:19). Surely, Peter (and the others) received thousands of new "brothers", "sisters", "mothers", etc. during their ministry by remaining faithful. The day of Pentecost records 3000 such additions to the "family", and it goes up from there.

2. The book of Acts records many people selling land and laying it at the apostles feet (Acts 4:32-35).

I don't see anything in your reply that would necessarily negate what I posted unless we press for a literal interpretation of Jesus' words.

Perhaps you could elaborate.

Lord bless.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

User avatar
_Christopher
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:35 pm
Location: Gladstone, Oregon

Post by _Christopher » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:34 pm

Incidentally,

Earlier I wrote:
So, in that same chapter, we have the parable of the wheat and the tares (vs.24-30) that I’ve always taken to be describing the church age and finally ending in the second coming. I do not know what Wright’s views are about this passage, so I can’t speak for him. But I’m reconsidering it with his framework in mind.

This morning I found in one of Wright’s articles called Jesus, Israel, and the Cross:
If Jesus’ language about the Kingdom thus resonated with the expectation of
his contemporaries that God would act in history to vindicate his name and his people, it
is also clear that what he said about the Kingdom challenged and disturbed those current
expectations. His message is, to that extent, like that of Amos 5:18: Why do you desire
the Day of Yahweh? It is a day of darkness, and not of light. A good many of the parables
are devoted to saying: this, and not that, is what the Kingdom (for which you have
longed) is like. It is like a net full of fish, good and bad together: like wheat mingled with tares: like a man sowing seed in his field. It is a time of judgment for Israel, not deliverance merely. Many will come from East and West, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom, while the children of the Kingdom are cast out. If these statements and others like them are read simply as retrojections of the later church into the ministry of Jesus, it will be impossible (I believe) to understand that ministry in its true colours.
Guess that answers where Wright stands on some of the passages I’m re-examining. However, I’ve also heard him say that he believes in a final and physical second coming of Jesus in the same sense that evangelicals usually think of it. It might be that Wright is full-preterist when it comes to Jesus’ direct words, but still sees references to the second coming in other NT writers.

My suspicions are beginning to lean in that direction also.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

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