Do all worship the same God?

Post by **_Allyn** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:03 am

George Bush on prayer and heaven
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When interviewed by ABC's Charles Gibson, President George W. Bush
revealed his lack of even basic understanding of Christian doctrine.
Here is a verbatim transcript from that interview:

Q. "Do we all worship the same God, Christian and Muslim?"
A. "I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the
Almighty."

Q. "Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your
mind?"
A. "Yes they do. We have different routes of getting there."

Then, just a few days ago, President Bush, in an interview with Al
Arabiya television, said, "I believe in an almighty God, and I believe
that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other
religion, prays to the same God." In the same interview he said, "I
believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim
prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from
Abraham. I believe in that universality."

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Is this man really as stupid as he appears to be? How can one who is the leader of the greatest nation on earth and claims to read his Bible daily be in such a fog?

Post by **__id_1302** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:24 am

I have heard about this before and I have had time to think about what is being said about President Bush. Some people have even claimed that President Bush is most likely a "false convert."

I do not believe President Bush is "stupid" or "in a fog."

"And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." 1John 5:20 (NASB)

I believe that President Bush understands that verse. There is only one true God. Prayer that is not to the one true God is only words spoken into the air.

The true God knows the hearts of men and will judge President Bush. The Christian's duty is to pray for God to bless him and give him wisdom. Perhaps there is a shortage of the right kind of prayer for President Bush.

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1Timothy 2:1-4 (NASB)
1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties {and} prayers, petitions {and} thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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In the interview with Charles Gibson, President Bush also said, after the answers quoted by Allyn:

...But, I want you to understand. I want your listeners to understand. I don't get to decide who goes to heaven. The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven, and I am on my personal walk.

These words are words of wisdom. He knows that, "The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven." There is only one Almighty God. In his perhaps childlike "diplomatic" faith there is hope for all of sinful mankind to be saved, and, make no mistake, President Bush also made it clear that the decision is not his.

He also knows how easy it is to offend and set off those who want an excuse to kill in the name of Allah. The president of all people of all religions in the United States can never forget that diplomacy is one of the duties of his office. I know he spoke as a diplomat and not as a theologian, prophet, pastor, teacher, or an evangelist. Perhaps saving American lives is more important to him than to some of those who condemn him. As Jesus once said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone."

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James 4:11-12 (NASB)
James 4:11 Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge {of it.}
James 4:12 There is {only} one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?

Blessings,
Lazarus43

Post by **_livingink** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:10 pm

Hey Allyn,

You might consider rereading Isaiah 44:24 through chapter 45. There may be some parallel to Cyrus whom God called his anointed 45:1 though Cyrus did not acknowledge God 45:4. In 45:13 God says he will raise up Cyrus in God's righteousness. Now, why would God pick a fellow who didn't understand who God was and whom apparently worshipped idols 45:20 to be his anointed servant? (that's a question question and not a rhetorical question)

Do you think there's any similarity?

livingink

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:41 pm

Muslims and Christians both recognize one God ---- the Creator.

There is only one Creator, and so it must be the same God they recognize.

In the Arabian language, the word for "God" is "Allah".

It is not that Christians and Muslims worship two different Gods. Rather, Muslims do not see the character of God in the same way.

We do the same thing with someone we know here on earth. Joe and Jim both know a man named Paul. Joe knows Paul as a kindly, loving man.
Jim saw Paul lash out in anger twice, and so he thinks of him as a hateful man. One day, Jim heard Joe say what a good-hearted man Paul is. Jim said, "That's not the Paul I know!" Of course, it was the Paul Jim knew. It's just that Jim has a different understanding of Paul's character.

Even within Christianity, there are various views concerning the character of God. For example, some of you believe that God will send all non-Christians to a place where they will suffer forever for their sins. Others believe that sooner or later, God will reconcile all people to Himself. Do the two groups believe in different Gods? Or do the two groups disagree about the character of God?

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:38 am

Paidion wrote:Muslims and Christians both recognize one God ---- the Creator.

There is only one Creator, and so it must be the same God they recognize.

In the Arabian language, the word for "God" is "Allah".

It is not that Christians and Muslims worship two different Gods. Rather, Muslims do not see the character of God in the same way.

We do the same thing with someone we know here on earth. Joe and Jim both know a man named Paul. Joe knows Paul as a kindly, loving man.
Jim saw Paul lash out in anger twice, and so he thinks of him as a hateful man. One day, Jim heard Joe say what a good-hearted man Paul is. Jim said, "That's not the Paul I know!" Of course, it was the Paul Jim knew. It's just that Jim has a different understanding of Paul's character.

Even within Christianity, there are various views concerning the character of God. For example, some of you believe that God will send all non-Christians to a place where they will suffer forever for their sins. Others believe that sooner or later, God will reconcile all people to Himself. Do the two groups believe in different Gods? Or do the two groups disagree about the character of God?

Looking from man's perspective that may be a good comparison but from God's perspective it holds no water. We know now that the attributes of God can come only through Jesus Christ. To reject God's Son is to not know God. Bush goes one step further saying it "We have different routes of getting to the Almighty." But Jesus says that no man comes to the Father except by Him.

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:07 am

livingink wrote:Hey Allyn,

You might consider rereading Isaiah 44:24 through chapter 45. There may be some parallel to Cyrus whom God called his anointed 45:1 though Cyrus did not acknowledge God 45:4. In 45:13 God says he will raise up Cyrus in God's righteousness. Now, why would God pick a fellow who didn't understand who God was and whom apparently worshipped idols 45:20 to be his anointed servant? (that's a question question and not a rhetorical question)

Do you think there's any similarity?

livingink

No I do not believe there are similarities. In my original post Bush says its all ok and we just get there even though we go down different paths. God, however, is saying I am the Potter and you are the clay. I choose whom I will according to My will. This is far different from man making his own route according to his own will.
Take Cornelius as another example. He worshipped the one true God - and we know this because we are told so - but his route was insufficient on its own.

From my perspective it is not who knows God but rather who is saved by God, and from that perspective salvation has only one path.

Charles Gibson was asking his question from the side of liberal political correctness and Bus fell right into the trap and compromised his faith by doing so, in my opinion.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:30 pm

Allyn wrote:Looking from man's perspective that may be a good comparison but from God's perspective it holds no water.

How would you, being a man, know that?

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:10 pm

Paidion wrote:
Allyn wrote:Looking from man's perspective that may be a good comparison but from God's perspective it holds no water.
How would you, being a man, know that?

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Post by **__id_2243** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:33 pm

It seems to me this issue is largely semantic. You can say that non-Christians are talking about the same God but have misunderstandings about Him, or else you can say that non-Christians are talking about a different god who they correctly characterize. It doesn't strike me as an important difference. What matters to me is the President's handling of policy issues coming out of these problems. Did the President give a perfectly theologically nuanced answer? No. But I think it's a real mistake to harp too much on something like that when, if you look at the merits of his policy views, I view President Bush as one of the truest allies to Chrsitians in the White House in recent memory.

Regards,

CThomas

Post by **_Allyn** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:20 pm

This may raise some objections, but it all matters on whether you lead your life in the present sense or the spiritual sense. If in the present sense then it doesn't matter if our president placates, but if the spiritual sense then words have meaning and impact and tend to reflect who and what you stand for.