Re: Bill Schlegel Videos
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:13 pm
Commonsense
Otherness>>> Rather, the one God, Who truly is the Father of Creation, is known no other way but by His one, and only, Son (the Logos), the Lord Jesus Christ. This transcendent (mysterious) God, Who is always in Heaven, no one but His Son knows (Matthew 11:27). No other “god” is God, not even “the G(g)od” that the Jews (John 8:41) claimed as their father, and certainly none of the gods of the Gentiles. What we have the apostle saying here is that the “Transcendent One,” the true Father, is known only by the “Immanent One,” – He, alone, reveals Who God IS. Yes, He is “other” than the Father, the otherwise unknowable transcendent God, but He is One with Him in Nature, thus to see and know Him is to see and know the Father (the one true God).<<<
commonsense>>>There are other ways to know God. As Paul says, "What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made."<<<
There is “knowing,” and then there is “KNOWING.” There is “glimpsing,” and then there is “SEEING.” The quality of knowing that Jesus brings spiritually is analogous to “and Adam knew his wife Eve, and she conceived.” This quality of knowing (in Christ) births a new creature that did not (could not) exist before, and in the fulness of time this intimacy was offered to mankind (Matthew 11:11). The Incarnation brought God here to this place we had been exiled to because of disobedience.
Yes, it is possible to “know of God,” but it is impossible to “know Him” until His Presence is “in you.” Again, the Incarnation brought Him into our midst, but it wasn't until Pentecost that mankind knew (experienced) Him (on the inside) as He needs to be known (to be known). This is the kind of knowledge that one must be (re)born into, and it eventually grows to the full maturity described by 1 Corinthians 13:12.
commonsense>>>If He alone reveals who God is, as you say here, then how did those who saw Him, know that He is God. ( Or the voice of God). They must have known God prior to this.<<<
Those who experienced His Personal Presence (e.g., the apostles) “sensed” His uniqueness, but coming to know Him (as God) took some time. Yes, they were expecting the Messiah, but they had to grow in understanding of Who and What He was. Think about Jesus in the manger, well...even He had to “grow into” (the awareness of) Who He really WAS. A mature oak tree bearing seed is the fulness of the acorn, and the Logos producing (the Love that is) the Body of Christ is the fulness of the Logos.
commonsense>>>It is evident in the Old Testament that there were people who knew God. Paul even says, “Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God but became futile in their thoughts and their foolish minds were darkened<<<
There were a few particular individuals who, for God's own creative agenda, knew Him in a “special” way. However, as Jesus said, among men born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist, but the least one in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.
Otherness>>> The real problem here for non-trinitarians is that there is only One I AM Who is GOD.<<<
commonsense>>>It's not a problem for me. I think the problem lies on the Trinitarian's side with explaining how there are 3 Gods, but there's only one God. The way I see it, there's one God and there are those who are one with God in the Spirit, or spiritually united with God. I think this is what the New Testament writers are saying.<<<
What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? In our case here the irresistible force is, for Trinitarians, the “obvious” data of Scripture concerning the trinitarian formulation of the Godhead, and the immovable object is (the) human intuition (for example) that the concept “1” and the concept “3” cannot identify the same “thing” in the same place at the same time. This (kind of) human intuition is built into our ontology as natural, material, physical entities : it is inherently the default state of our reasoning process. But...something has been happening in the depth of our ontological makeup in the last one hundred years. That “thing” is Quantum Theory and it is forcing the human minds that are on the forefront of (this kind of) knowledge to “let go” of these intuitions.
As I said earlier : >>>The picture of the nature of reality that has been put together (by science) in the last one hundred years is so counter-intuitive that some of its brightest lights have described it as “magical” (John Wheeler) and “absurd” (Richard Feynman). More prosaically put, “quantum mechanics is the first theory in human history that violates the basic a priori principles that have shaped human thought since immemorial times.” (Miguel Ferrero, David Salgado, José Luís Sánchez-Gómez. QUANTUM MECHANICS AND MAGIC: AN OPEN DISCUSSION. 2014).<<<
For instance, quantum superposition posits that “a (quantum) thing” can exist in (much) more than one state simultaneously. It only “reduces” to one state when the larger system in which it is embedded acts upon (interacts with) it. In other words, at the most fundamental level of nature (that we have accessed) the natural intuitions of our cognitive processes are inadequate to deal with what is being experienced. We must “let go” of our naturalistic, materialistic (carnal?) intuitions about the nature of (everyday) reality in order to become “open” to what is really going on in its depths...if we are ever to really truly “understand” even superficial phenomena – which the human race (collectively) obviously does not!
You're comment here that trinitarians must explain “how there are 3 Gods, but there's only one God” fundamentally mischaracterizes the concept that was painstakenly formulated from the scriptural data. That is, there is ONE GOD Who exists as Father, as Son, as Holy Spirit.
In today's (metaphysical) vernacular it goes like this : there is a locus of Consciousness Who is The Father, there is a locus of Consciousness Who is the Son, and there is a locus of Consciousness Who is the Holy Spirit. This is Who and What I AM self-willfully IS in His desire to create that particular REALITY that pleases Him : the REALITY of THE BODY OF CHRIST. The Father / Son dynamic of His Being sets the Alpha and Omega of this truly “other” (truly ontologically other) REALITY to which He is committed. In identifying as Father / as Son He does not cease to be simply I AM : Holy Spirit. There are not 3 Gods, rather God is a (multidimensional) Spirit self-willfully existing in a State of Being that is the cause of a Creation that yields the fruit of the BODY OF CHRIST.
As I have said, and as we all should expect, the (truth about the makeup of the)) Natural World is destined to glorify God, for even “the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands (Isaiah 55:12).
Koinonia
Otherness>>> Rather, the one God, Who truly is the Father of Creation, is known no other way but by His one, and only, Son (the Logos), the Lord Jesus Christ. This transcendent (mysterious) God, Who is always in Heaven, no one but His Son knows (Matthew 11:27). No other “god” is God, not even “the G(g)od” that the Jews (John 8:41) claimed as their father, and certainly none of the gods of the Gentiles. What we have the apostle saying here is that the “Transcendent One,” the true Father, is known only by the “Immanent One,” – He, alone, reveals Who God IS. Yes, He is “other” than the Father, the otherwise unknowable transcendent God, but He is One with Him in Nature, thus to see and know Him is to see and know the Father (the one true God).<<<
commonsense>>>There are other ways to know God. As Paul says, "What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made."<<<
There is “knowing,” and then there is “KNOWING.” There is “glimpsing,” and then there is “SEEING.” The quality of knowing that Jesus brings spiritually is analogous to “and Adam knew his wife Eve, and she conceived.” This quality of knowing (in Christ) births a new creature that did not (could not) exist before, and in the fulness of time this intimacy was offered to mankind (Matthew 11:11). The Incarnation brought God here to this place we had been exiled to because of disobedience.
Yes, it is possible to “know of God,” but it is impossible to “know Him” until His Presence is “in you.” Again, the Incarnation brought Him into our midst, but it wasn't until Pentecost that mankind knew (experienced) Him (on the inside) as He needs to be known (to be known). This is the kind of knowledge that one must be (re)born into, and it eventually grows to the full maturity described by 1 Corinthians 13:12.
commonsense>>>If He alone reveals who God is, as you say here, then how did those who saw Him, know that He is God. ( Or the voice of God). They must have known God prior to this.<<<
Those who experienced His Personal Presence (e.g., the apostles) “sensed” His uniqueness, but coming to know Him (as God) took some time. Yes, they were expecting the Messiah, but they had to grow in understanding of Who and What He was. Think about Jesus in the manger, well...even He had to “grow into” (the awareness of) Who He really WAS. A mature oak tree bearing seed is the fulness of the acorn, and the Logos producing (the Love that is) the Body of Christ is the fulness of the Logos.
commonsense>>>It is evident in the Old Testament that there were people who knew God. Paul even says, “Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God but became futile in their thoughts and their foolish minds were darkened<<<
There were a few particular individuals who, for God's own creative agenda, knew Him in a “special” way. However, as Jesus said, among men born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist, but the least one in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.
Otherness>>> The real problem here for non-trinitarians is that there is only One I AM Who is GOD.<<<
commonsense>>>It's not a problem for me. I think the problem lies on the Trinitarian's side with explaining how there are 3 Gods, but there's only one God. The way I see it, there's one God and there are those who are one with God in the Spirit, or spiritually united with God. I think this is what the New Testament writers are saying.<<<
What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? In our case here the irresistible force is, for Trinitarians, the “obvious” data of Scripture concerning the trinitarian formulation of the Godhead, and the immovable object is (the) human intuition (for example) that the concept “1” and the concept “3” cannot identify the same “thing” in the same place at the same time. This (kind of) human intuition is built into our ontology as natural, material, physical entities : it is inherently the default state of our reasoning process. But...something has been happening in the depth of our ontological makeup in the last one hundred years. That “thing” is Quantum Theory and it is forcing the human minds that are on the forefront of (this kind of) knowledge to “let go” of these intuitions.
As I said earlier : >>>The picture of the nature of reality that has been put together (by science) in the last one hundred years is so counter-intuitive that some of its brightest lights have described it as “magical” (John Wheeler) and “absurd” (Richard Feynman). More prosaically put, “quantum mechanics is the first theory in human history that violates the basic a priori principles that have shaped human thought since immemorial times.” (Miguel Ferrero, David Salgado, José Luís Sánchez-Gómez. QUANTUM MECHANICS AND MAGIC: AN OPEN DISCUSSION. 2014).<<<
For instance, quantum superposition posits that “a (quantum) thing” can exist in (much) more than one state simultaneously. It only “reduces” to one state when the larger system in which it is embedded acts upon (interacts with) it. In other words, at the most fundamental level of nature (that we have accessed) the natural intuitions of our cognitive processes are inadequate to deal with what is being experienced. We must “let go” of our naturalistic, materialistic (carnal?) intuitions about the nature of (everyday) reality in order to become “open” to what is really going on in its depths...if we are ever to really truly “understand” even superficial phenomena – which the human race (collectively) obviously does not!
You're comment here that trinitarians must explain “how there are 3 Gods, but there's only one God” fundamentally mischaracterizes the concept that was painstakenly formulated from the scriptural data. That is, there is ONE GOD Who exists as Father, as Son, as Holy Spirit.
In today's (metaphysical) vernacular it goes like this : there is a locus of Consciousness Who is The Father, there is a locus of Consciousness Who is the Son, and there is a locus of Consciousness Who is the Holy Spirit. This is Who and What I AM self-willfully IS in His desire to create that particular REALITY that pleases Him : the REALITY of THE BODY OF CHRIST. The Father / Son dynamic of His Being sets the Alpha and Omega of this truly “other” (truly ontologically other) REALITY to which He is committed. In identifying as Father / as Son He does not cease to be simply I AM : Holy Spirit. There are not 3 Gods, rather God is a (multidimensional) Spirit self-willfully existing in a State of Being that is the cause of a Creation that yields the fruit of the BODY OF CHRIST.
As I have said, and as we all should expect, the (truth about the makeup of the)) Natural World is destined to glorify God, for even “the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands (Isaiah 55:12).
Koinonia