The Holy Spirit - a person??

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Homer
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by Homer » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:08 am

21centpilgrim,

You wrote:
We tend to read Matthew 2819 as current Americans with the assumption of the word ‘name’. It carries with it the description or meaning of authority, and therefore is not a proof text for the trinity like many assume.
People may then reply and say that only a person has authority, however the constitution has authority for one example the presence of a person via representation carries the authority.
Name (Grk. onoma) certainly carries the meaning of authority but by metonymy can also mean "person". In Matthew 28:19 where we find "in the name..." we have the Greek preposition eis , literally "into", rather than the preposition en, "in"). The scriptures inform us we are baptized "into" Christ so it seems to make sense that onoma refers to "person" rather than "authority".

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21centpilgrim
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by 21centpilgrim » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:11 pm

Homer, just because a word can be translated a certain way doesn't mean that one's preferred meaning gets the win so to speak.

If 'name' here implies authority then singular 'name=authority' not 'names=authorities' makes sense as equally or perhaps more so than 'name=person'. So then the Acts accounts of baptizing in the name- singular'of Jesus is not a big omission or misdirection of the great commission.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

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Homer
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by Homer » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:15 pm

21centpilgrim,

Did you consider the meaning of the Greek prepositions along with "names"?

See here something very useful:

http://www.onthewing.org/user/Greek%20Prepositions.pdf

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21centpilgrim
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by 21centpilgrim » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:48 pm

thanks Homer
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

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darinhouston
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by darinhouston » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:48 pm

Homer wrote:21centpilgrim,

Did you consider the meaning of the Greek prepositions along with "names"?

See here something very useful:

http://www.onthewing.org/user/Greek%20Prepositions.pdf
That is a very useful chart.




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21centpilgrim
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by 21centpilgrim » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Homer, so you think that 'into the name' would take away from a meaning of authority and favor name meaning a singular person?

Also, do you have any thoughts on the Holy Spirit not having a name? I would love to hear any interaction with the points I shared in the initial post on here.

Thanks
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

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Paidion
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by Paidion » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:37 pm

Hi Brother Alan, you wrote:Let me know what you think of this: https://carm.org/is-matthew-28-19-a-later-addition
Yes, there are other early writings that use the formula. The Didache has been dated to the first century by some. I am rather familiar with it.

However, the question still remains, "Why was baptism by the apostles as recorded in the book of Acts done only in the name of Jesus, if Jesus had commanded the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Were the apostles disobedient, but baptizing in the name of Jesus only?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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BrotherAlan
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by BrotherAlan » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:50 pm

Paidion,
Two possible reasons for why the Scriptures refer to baptizing in the name of Jesus:
1.) That phrase, "baptizing in the name of Jesus", means baptizing by the authority given them by Christ.
2.) Besides the Trinitarian formula, this was an alternative formula.

I think #1 is more probable.

In Christ,
BrotherAlan
"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and always, and unto the ages of ages. Amen."

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Paidion
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by Paidion » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:10 pm

Thank you, Brother Alan. Both of those seem to be possible ways of looking at the issue, though I still lean toward the explanation that I gave,.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 81.

BrotherAlan
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Re: The Holy Spirit - a person??

Post by BrotherAlan » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:21 am

Thanks for the reply, Paidion. Let's pray about this one. Peace.

In Christ,
BrotherAlan
"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and always, and unto the ages of ages. Amen."

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