Angel of the Lord

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darinhouston
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Angel of the Lord

Post by darinhouston » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:52 am

While reading the Easter narratives in devotions, I noticed something I hadn't noticed before. For those who believe the appearances of the "Angel of the Lord" in the Bible are Christophanies, what do you do with Matthew 28 ?
Matthew 28 wrote: 1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Darrell
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by Darrell » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:02 am

Greetings Darin,
The article isn't in the Greek so it should read "an angel".
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Homer
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by Homer » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:46 pm

OK Darin, you caused me to notice something else in Matthew 28:

19. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name (name, singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Why is the name (onoma) singular unless the three are one or if not, why, if the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or power would it/he have a name along with the others?

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luke
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by luke » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:13 pm

Not to get sidetracked from Darin's original comments, but Homer brings up a really interesting point about the word "name" being used instead of "names". I don't know all the proof texts that are used for the Trinity, but this seems like it could be one of them. If Jesus was referring to three different people, it seems like he would have said "...baptizing them in the NAMES of...".

Darin, back to your original comments, in my recent reading of the Old Testament, I have been fascinated when reading about the appearances of the angel of the Lord and I like to imagine it being Jesus who wrestled with Jacob, appeared to Samson's parents, etc. However, this instance makes it seem improbable that the angel of the Lord sitting on the tombstone was Jesus because it seems like the women would have recognized the angel as Jesus Himself. And it also seems like Matthew would have just recorded it as being "Jesus" instead of "the angel of the Lord". I also just read the parallel accounts and in Luke, the angel is referred to as "two men" and in John as "two angels".

Curious to hear other's thoughts!

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darinhouston
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by darinhouston » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:03 am

Homer wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:46 pm
OK Darin, you caused me to notice something else in Matthew 28:

19. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name (name, singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Why is the name (onoma) singular unless the three are one or if not, why, if the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or power would it/he have a name along with the others?
Some translations actually pluralize it since that's the context. I simply don't place any theological weight on this one way or the other and it has numerous grammatical parallels that don't imply a "unity" in trinity - a frequent modern example given is: "Arrest them in the name of the king, and the queen, and the motherland." The word for "name" is often considered more like the word "authority" which is frequently used as a collective singular. Scriptural examples I found online of similar collective singulars:

Exodus 23:13
2 Samuel 7:9
1 Chron. 17:8)
Proverbs 10:7

There is also some significant textual critical debate about whether this reading is accurate, though I'm not sure how strong that position is in this case.

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Paidion
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by Paidion » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:50 am

Darrell wrote:Greetings Darin,
The article isn't in the Greek so it should read "an angel".
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What Greek version does not have the article?
Both Greek versions that I have on my "Online Bible Program"—WH and TR Classic— have the article.
Paidion

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Darrell
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by Darrell » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:10 pm

Paidion,
These are the texts I examined,....maybe I'm not seeing it. (?)
Please underline or make bold the article pertaining to angel.


Matthew 28:2 (TR1550MR): και ιδου σεισμος εγενετο μεγας αγγελος γαρ κυριου καταβας εξ ουρανου προσελθων απεκυλισεν τον λιθον απο της θυρας και εκαθητο επανω αυτου.

Matthew 28:2 (Westcott): και ιδου σεισμος εγενετο μεγας αγγελος γαρ κυριου καταβας εξ ουρανου και προσελθων απεκυλισεν τον λιθον και εκαθητο επανω αυτου.

Matthew 28:2 (SBLGNT): καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας· ἄγγελος γὰρ κυρίου καταβὰς ἐξ οὐρανοῦ καὶ προσελθὼν ἀπεκύλισε τὸν λίθον καὶ ἐκάθητο ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ.

Would you post the texts you are referencing?

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darinhouston
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by darinhouston » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:43 pm

I don't see an article, but I did note this translation note from the NET bible....
NET Bible Translation Notes wrote:Or “the angel of the Lord.” Linguistically, “angel of the Lord” is the same in both testaments (and thus, he is either “an angel of the Lord” or “the angel of the Lord” in both testaments). For arguments and implications, see ExSyn 252; M. J. Davidson, “Angels,” DJG, 9; W. G. MacDonald argues for “an angel” in both testaments: “Christology and ‘The Angel of the Lord’,” Current Issues in Biblical and Patristic Interpretation, 324-35.
I need to read those articles.

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darinhouston
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by darinhouston » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:32 pm

I haven't had a chance to look for those references yet, but as I understand "the article" in Greek, it doesn't always distinguish the definite vs. the indefinite as it does in English

steve7150
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Re: Angel of the Lord

Post by steve7150 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:21 pm

While reading the Easter narratives in devotions, I noticed something I hadn't noticed before. For those who believe the appearances of the "Angel of the Lord" in the Bible are Christophanies, what do you do with Matthew 28 ?
Matthew 28 wrote:
1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.



As the Angel of the Lord said "he is not here" meaning in the tomb & "He is risen" therefore is it implausible that The Angel of the Lord may have been Jesus & when it was needed to reveal that Jesus had risen , that Jesus appeared as Jesus resurrected at the appropriate time to his disciples. In Revelation , Jesus had different appearances , he looked different at various times. In other words The Angel of the Lord and Jesus didn't appear together, even here.

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