Trinities podcast

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darinhouston
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Re: Trinities podcast

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:18 pm

Seballius wrote:
Paidion wrote:Well... I don't think the Greek is contrary to the interpretation that Darin places on the expression.

Then there's Jehovah's Witnesses' interpretation to consider:
Thomas was simply using slang language, just as someone today might exclaim in response to an unexpected event, "My Lord!" or "Oh, my God!"
Hello Paidion

Have you seen examples of this in the literature of this time? I have not. Although I am sure you have read more than me.

I think it is unlikely that Thomas would use such an expression. As sensitive as the Jews were, such an expression via that manner of exclamation would probably be disrespectful if not blasphemous.


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I tend to agree. Though I would also would think it unlikely that he would make such an overt declaration that Jesus was God without direct scriptural dialogue about it. Especially Considering the debates around circumcision and diet and that sort of thing. The argument for silence usually isn’t very strong. But in this case I think it is highly probative if not convincing.


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Seballius
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Re: Trinities podcast

Post by Seballius » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:24 pm

Hello Darin

I do agree with you about White. About 10 years ago, I leaned towards Calvinism for a short time after reading R C Sproul’s book “Chosen by God”. One of the reasons, I went away from that leaning was the attitudes of men like White. I do find him abrasive, but he has studied the issue extensively and he knows NT Greek. Although I do think one always needs to consider the presuppositions of the presenter.


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darinhouston
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Trinities podcast

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:29 pm

Seballius wrote:Hello Darin

I do agree with you about White. About 10 years ago, I leaned towards Calvinism for a short time after reading R C Sproul’s book “Chosen by God”. One of the reasons, I went away from that leaning was the attitudes of men like White. I do find him abrasive, but he has studied the issue extensively and he knows NT Greek. Although I do think one always needs to consider the presuppositions of the presenter.


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I have little basis to prove this. But I often wonder how much Greek he really knows. He holds himself up as an authority and has great skills of bombast. But he often uses such certain and definite language and insists some rules are uniform that others seem to disagree with or on my lay investigation see is a recent discovery on little textual evidence.

But I’m a little out my depth on that.


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Seballius
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Re: Trinities podcast

Post by Seballius » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:10 pm

I did read Tuggy’s book, What is the Trinity, this last week. It mainly focuses on the history and development of the doctrine in church history and the philosophical problems that he sees in it. He presents his points in an irenic fashion and that is refreshing. However, he does not dig into the actual biblical texts that are often debated.

Since reading his book, I have decided to go through the whole NT and write down all the descriptions that are given to Jesus. Let’s see how long that takes me. So far I have completed up to Matthew 14. It has surprised me, having a different set of eyes, how much Jesus subordinates himself to the Father.


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Paidion
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Re: Trinities podcast

Post by Paidion » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:49 pm

Seballius, you wrote:I think it is unlikely that Thomas would use such an expression. As sensitive as the Jews were, such an expression via that manner of exclamation would probably be disrespectful if not blasphemous.
I brought it up only to present yet another view. I don't put any credence in it either.
Paidion

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darinhouston
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Re: BIPOC

Post by darinhouston » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:22 am

Seballius wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:13 am
darinhouston wrote:Like ADOS - American Descendants of Slavery
My question is off this topic. Are you still listening to the trinities podcast? What are your thoughts? In other words, do you agree with D. Tuggy?


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Yes, this is a bit off-topic. Hard to say I agree with him completely since he spends more time interacting with others' ideas than affirmatively presenting his own, but I'd say I agree with 80% of his positions. He has a number of areas where he could go any number of places other than traditional interpretation. But, on balance, I tend to think he's on the right track. This is one of the problems in this area. It's sort of like Calvinism -- it's one thing to show how utterly wrong those doctrines are, but you aren't responding to a monolithic opinion, and it's harder to fill in the gaps of "mystery" or un-revealed truth than it is to show how one view is wrong. There are a wide variety of opinions about various aspects of the trinity -- and Tuggy's criticisms of them all have seemed spot on to me - even if they "could" be true, it's clear that they are mostly speculation and shouldn't be "doctrine." Some of them are just plain illogical or inconsistent with Scripture. But, filling in those remaining gaps to explain certain aspects like pre-existence or the role and character of the Spirit with a positive theory is harder mainly because it's not revealed or even discussed much.

I do think it's pretty clear that some flavor of subordinationism is true and that Logos Trinitarianism with a pre-existent Jesus and three separate persons of a trinitarian equal and co-eternal Godhead is likely not.

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Seballius
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Re: Trinities podcast

Post by Seballius » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:07 pm

Thank you for your reply!


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