Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post Reply
User avatar
21centpilgrim
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:17 pm

Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by 21centpilgrim » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:15 pm

Is Mat 28.19 talking about a specific “name,” as in Jesus. Are not Father, Son, HS titles and not names?

All of the accounts in Acts mention Jesus name as being baptized in the name of. Since Jesus' very name means- Yehsua ( Yahshua) means " Yah is salvation." Yehsua is still saving through his son and so doesn't this all point back to the Father- Yahweh, 'the only true God' as described from the lips of Jesus?
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Homer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:43 pm

I think in the thinking of the contemporaries of Jesus they would have understood "name" to mean "person". The name represented the person in a way it does not to us.

User avatar
21centpilgrim
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:17 pm

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by 21centpilgrim » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:07 pm

Good point Homer. Thanks
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Paidion » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:21 pm

What is called "The Great Commission" is given in Matthew 28 (ESV):

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always,


So if this is the great commission that Christ gave to His apostles, why did they not carry it out? In the book of Acts there is not a single instance in which it is recorded that anyone was baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Where it refers to being baptized in a name, it is in the name of Jesus Christ:

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Ac 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


The fact that it is not recorded anywhere in the New Testament that the apostles baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" suggests that perhaps Jesus didn't actually state the command in this way.

However, I did a search of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and found that the writings ascribed to Ignatius, contain the quote as in Matthew 28 in several instances. But some of the experts claim that all of the writings ascribed to Ignatius are forgeries. Notwithstanding, we find the quote given once in Irenæus on the subject of baptism, and twice in the writings of Tertullian. Much as I have thought about the problem, I have unable to resolve it.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 40 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Homer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:22 am

Hi Paidion,

The narratives in Acts are curious in that they each use a different Greek preposition (epi, en, eis). In Matthew the preposition is eis, literally "into", as it is in:

Romans 6:3 (NASB)
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into
(eis) Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Galatians 3:27 (NASB)
27. For all of you who were baptized into
(eis) Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

And then we have two of the prepositions here:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
13. For by
(en) one Spirit we were all baptized into (eis) one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

It seems to me eis is a reference to the goal or state reached. What do you think of the use of en and epi? Authority?

User avatar
21centpilgrim
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:17 pm

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by 21centpilgrim » Mon May 27, 2019 12:09 pm

Upon further thinking, doesn't name imply authority? And so Matt 28:19 formula not being repeated anywhere else would seem to make more sense if in Matthew's account the idea being conveyed in baptism in the authority of F, S, H/S?

If the triad mentioned in 28:19 is proof of the trinity then what to make of this other NT triad?

1 Tim. 5:21I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to maintain these principles without bias and to do nothing out of partiality.

Shouldn't 'Holy Spirit' be in the place of 'elect angles' if the Trinity is true, or was the Trinity not yet revealed to the Apostles?

thanks
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Paidion » Mon May 27, 2019 7:36 pm

Hi Paidion,

The narratives in Acts are curious in that they each use a different Greek preposition (epi, en, eis). In Matthew the preposition is eis, literally "into", as it is in:
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 40 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Paidion » Mon May 27, 2019 7:43 pm

Homer, you wrote:Hi Paidion,

The narratives in Acts are curious in that they each use a different Greek preposition (epi, en, eis). In Matthew the preposition is eis, literally "into", as it is in:
I'm not sure that these prepositional variations are particularly significant.

But I wonder if the "great commission" of Matthew 28 has been altered. Otherwise, it seems odd that the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus only (according to Luke who wrote Acts) if Jesus had told them to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 40 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Matt 28 and Trinity baptism?

Post by Paidion » Mon May 27, 2019 8:11 pm

Eusebius quoted Christ as follows:

He shewed the virtue of the power in His Name concealed from the crowd when He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all the nations in my Name.” (Eusebius—The Proof of the Gospel)
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 40 years old. I am now 81.

Post Reply

Return to “The Trinity”