Leavened Bread for Communion??

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Homer
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by Homer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:22 pm

Hi TK,

You wrote:
It seems to me that Jesus used bread and wine because that is what was on the table.
But lamb was on the table and He didn't choose to use that, even though He is "the Lamb of God". But He is also the bread of life; seems to be very considerate of Him to choose the most common of foods.
Why is there significance in what he used?
He chose bread; He is the "decider" in this case, not us. And that is the nature of positive law - it is right because the one with authority, be it an elected government, king, or God says it is right. It has nothing to do with morality.

It seems odd to me that evangelical Christians will not give an inch over what is right in regard to moral laws (as they should) but give great latitude when it comes to a positive law. Seems to me God cut some slack in the OT regarding moral laws (see David and Bathsheba) but in Saul's case where positive laws were violated God put the hammer down, not to mention the case of Uzzah, and many others, including Adam's sin.

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TK
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by TK » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:32 am

Homer wrote:
He chose bread; He is the "decider" in this case, not us.
Granted, that is what He chose. But was the significance in the elements, or what they represented?

It can certainly be argued that when Jesus instituted the Lord's supper that he intended bread and wine ONLY be used from there on out.

Does that mean if a group of Christians want to share the Lord's supper and don't have bread and wine available, that they can't take communion?

TK

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Michelle
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by Michelle » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:11 pm

TK wrote:
Does that mean if a group of Christians want to share the Lord's supper and don't have bread and wine available, that they can't take communion?

TK
Well, if there is a group of Christians and one (or more) want to be baptized, but at that moment they're not standing in water, does that mean they have to go find some?

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TK
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by TK » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:31 pm

Michelle wrote:
Well, if there is a group of Christians and one (or more) want to be baptized, but at that moment they're not standing in water, does that mean they have to go find some?
Baptism may be tad different because it is hard to immersed in something other than water. I don't think buring them in sand or dipping them in a snow bank would cut the mustard. Maybe the better question is, should it be running water? (it was for Jesus and other early converts). Must it be fresh water? It was for Jesus and the early converts.

What if Jesus had come to China, not Israel. Perhaps the Lord Supper would have consisted of rice and sake?

I am not trying to be irreverent here. My question is whether the elements REALLY matter, or whether what they REPRESENT is the real thing that matters.

The church we have been attending use oyster crackers, not matza. And they use grape juice, not wine. Should this really be an issue?

Maybe it should be; I just have a lot of questions about that.

TK

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Michelle
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by Michelle » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:54 pm

TK wrote: I am not trying to be irreverent here. My question is whether the elements REALLY matter, or whether what they REPRESENT is the real thing that matters.
You've said this twice -- this time with emphasis. Would you mind describing what (for you) the elements represent, and also how lamb, fish, pizza, rice, sake, and pop might make good symbols for this?

The church we have been attending use oyster crackers, not matza. And they use grape juice, not wine. Should this really be an issue?

Maybe it should be; I just have a lot of questions about that.

TK
Well...oyster crackers are leavened bread and juice isn't really wine. Apparently there HAVE been debates over this issue, with at least one leading to a HUGE schism. Do you think it's an unimportant thing to talk about?

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TK
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Re: Leavened Bread for Communion??

Post by TK » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Michelle wrote:
Do you think it's an unimportant thing to talk about?
Sort of, I guess.

I think it is absolutely important that we practice taking the Lord's Supper.

What I believe is unimportant (although I am open to having my mind changed) are the elements; i.e. that only unleavened bread and only wine (presumably red) be used, as if God does not "accept" our observance of this sacrament if we use oyster crackers and grape juice.

TK

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