Sin against the body

StevenD
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by StevenD » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:34 pm

Hi Roy. My initial input was aimed to respond to your comment:
You cannot find ONE example of a non-virgin (not including widow) girl taking a husband and it be a righteous union.
Thank you for the invitation, but I don't intend to participate in your continuing discussion.
StevenD

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Paidion
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by Paidion » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:07 pm

Secondly, to think that God would command Hosea to commit an abominable act of fornication by being sexually intimate with a prostitute is ridiculous.
It's not at all ridiculous. Hosea indicates that God did it to illustrate how Israel went "whoring" after other gods.
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RoyHobs
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by RoyHobs » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:21 pm

Paidion wrote:illustrate how Israel went "whoring" after other gods.
Yes Paidion and the author would not disagree. But Israel went whoring "after" she was chosen.

4) Israel was not defiled when God chose and formed a nation of Him, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1). Israel was a young innocent child when God called (married) him out of Egypt, not a defiled fornicated one. Israel was unformed in Egypt and, then, formed and nurtured by God when called out and given His law. Israel, the nation, fornicated itself afterward; just as Gomer did. "I found Isreal like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the first ripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baal-peor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved" (Hosea 9:10).

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morbo3000
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:03 pm

So, Roy.

I grew up with porn in my house. It's been a problem for me throughout my life, with both victories and losses at different times.

My wife and I were strong Christians (as strong as can be expected of teenagers) in our teens. We conceived our first child before we were married.

I was once unfaithful to my wife. She was once unfaithful to me.

Each of my children has had sex before marriage. My three eldest have lived with their future spouses for at least a year before marrying.

In each of these cases: myself, my wife, and my children, "virginity" was given to someone other than the present spouse.

What does your theology say about us? About me? Our children?

And especially about my wife? About my daughters? Since you seem to be focused on women.
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morbo3000
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by morbo3000 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:05 pm

Roy pm'd me, so I should clarify. This is not a rhetorical question. But neither do I want (or need) counsel. Theology is all well and good when it lives in our heads or screens. The test is in how our theology plays out in our relationships with other people. How we judge them (or not.) How we reveal the character of God in our relationships with other people (or not.)

I look forward to his answer.


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Michelle
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by Michelle » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:12 pm

morbo3000 wrote:Roy pm'd me, so I should clarify. This is not a rhetorical question. But neither do I want (or need) counsel. Theology is all well and good when it lives in our heads or screens. The test is in how our theology plays out in our relationships with other people. How we judge them (or not.) How we reveal the character of God in our relationships with other people (or not.)

I look forward to his answer.


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Thanks for asking, morbo3000. I, too, look forward to Roy's answer. So far, he has asked a lot of questions, many of which he says are rhetorical, but I can't quite discern what he wants us to do with the point he is making.

RoyHobs
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by RoyHobs » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:45 pm

morbo3000 wrote:What does your theology say about us?


The Scriptures proclaim:

When a virgin girl has sex she is 'known' by that man. She is one flesh with the man. If a different man were to 'marry'** this same woman, the one flesh union would be an unrighteous union.

**"So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress."


Jesus said the road was narrow and only a few would find it. "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds is life, will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."

When discussing the difficulty of marriage, Jesus said, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given; for there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."

Living a life of abstinence is not the end of the world. Life is but a second. Eternity is forever.

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Michelle
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by Michelle » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:07 pm

RoyHobs, it seems that you are speaking mostly about women. A woman is one-flesh with the first man she has intercourse with, any others she has intercourse with are partners in adultery. Tell us about a man who only has sex with virgins, but more than one. Is he an adulterer or simply polygamous? Is polygamy immoral?

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morbo3000
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by morbo3000 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:09 pm

So, my daughters should marry the first man they had sex with. If they don't, then they will forever be living in adultery, even if they are married to someone who was not their first. Is that what you are saying?


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When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Singalphile
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Re: Sin against the body

Post by Singalphile » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:16 pm

I would like to say that the whole "biggest fan" discussion was pretty entertaining. Thank you.

As for the topic, it is a little hard to follow, and those blog posts give off a bit of a bad vibe. That is meant as constructive criticism, RoyHobs. I appreciate the apparent interest in being sexually moral.

For what it's worth, I'll answer the question in the first post - "Is it a sin against the body to have sex with a virgin?" The correct answer, I think, is, "It depends."
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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