Preschool or not?

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steve
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Preschool or not?

Post by steve » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:55 pm

I wasn't sure which category to post this in, but this one will do. I received a query from a listener in Washington State, asking my advice about putting his son in preschool. Since I answered him at length, I thought I would post the question and my response for the benefit of others in his same position. It has been many years since I had children the age of his son Ian, so, if any of my information is out of date, or mistaken, I would welcome correction from those who know more (I do not count myself an expert in child-rearing).

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Steve,

Thank you for your radio show. I live in Spokane and listen to you while driving at work. I download the podcast. Anyway, my son Ian is 3 years old, and today the pediatrician told my wife he should go to pre-school to prepare him for kindergarten. I live on a limited budget so my wife can stay home and I've heard some conservative talk shows talk against pre-school (Dr. Laura, I know you don't care for her). We only have one child and it seems it would be good for him to be around other kids. Also, we aren't very structured people so my son has things kind of carefree. The Doc said Ian would be at a loss if he didn't have pre-school before kindergarten. I've read that it didn't matter and that eventually he'd catch up. Mainly, I guess I feel it would be nice for him to have other kids to play with and some fun activities because at home he sort of just plays with his toys and wants me or his mommy to be his play mate. It's hard also because I live 3,000 miles away from other family and he really only plays with other kids on Sunday in the church nursery.

I guess it would be largely dependent upon my budget, but I could work extra to pay for it or tighten the budget. Anyway, I know you homeschooled most your kids and you didn't tow the party line when it came to society's rules on schooling. Is this something I should worry about or just relax and things will work out? He's mostly on target according to their charts except for writing. That was the problem. The chart said he should be able to copy a straight line after us and a circle, as well as some other things. I told my wife we could get a book at the library to get him up to snuff but she thinks pre-school would be better. What's your opinion. Thanks for any help.

S---

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Hi S---,

Thanks for writing! While I do not believe in telling other people how they must educate their children, I have a strong aversion to preschool—and even to the early grades of elementary school—for the following reasons:

Whether your doctor is aware of it or not, many studies have shown that when children are kept at home with their parents longer, and enter school later, they usually are more secure, more bonded to their parents, less peer-approval-dependent, and they easily catch-up with the kids who entered school earlier (at a less-optimal age for learning). This is especially true for boys, because they are not wired for sitting still under instruction as much as girls are. Girls love to sit still and play quietly with dolls, or read books. Boys usually are geared to run, climb, wrestle, shout, make explosion noises, etc. They chafe at having to sit still all day and listen to someone teach. Why should they have to? God did not design them for that! They will usually be more prepared for learning at a slightly older age than girls.

Unfortunately, when boys do not adjust well to the classroom regimen, they get (wrongly) diagnosed as having ADD, and then they are put on drugs like Ritalin (which is chemically almost indistinguishable from cocaine—ask a pharmacist). Schools and preschools are designed to standardize kids into a single socialistic mold, which many kids (especially little boys) tend to rebel against in some measure. There are several books by educational experts, Dr. Raymond and Dorothy Moore, which you might wish to read before putting Ian in that situation. Some of their titles are: "School Can Wait," "Better Late Than Early," and "Home-Grown Kids." You and you wife owe it to yourselves to read some of this material before making your decision.

Children's visual acuity is still developing until they are about ten, I have read. It is not good to require them to do very much close work (reading, drawing, etc.) for lengthy periods while their vision is developing, because (many feel) this can lead to near-sightedness. The idea that Ian should, at three years old, be able to draw or write is preposterous! Some kids are able to do so, and others are not. There is no norm! A child who can't walk until he is 15 months old is behind many others, but by the time he is five, he is no worse at walking and running than those who walked at 9 months. A child who still can't read well at seven or eight may be an avid reader at age twelve. If a boy cannot draw or write at age three, it means nothing at all. Let him be the individual that God made him to be. It is the State that has an agenda of standardizing all children to a certain norm. Resist that pressure. I had a son who could not even roll over until he was 9 months old! He is as strong and agile today as any kid with his genetic heritage. Once your boy is ten or twelve, what does it matter how well he drew circles at age three?

It would be good for Ian to have some kids to play with sometimes, but there is nothing wrong with him being more attached to mom and dad than to other kids. It is spiritually safer, for one thing, since any child will naturally be more interested in pleasing and getting approval from the people with whom he spends the most time. It is best if those people are you and your wife—if you would prefer for him to pick up your values, rather than those of kids who are being raised with minimal parental involvement.

Being your kid's closest companion is definitely time-consuming, but what better project can you put your time into? Ian is at a delightful age (I would give a great deal for the privilege of always having a toddler in my home)! It may be inconvenient to give him as much undivided attention as he demands, but you will soon enough wish that you still had him begging for your attention. He will eventually be more interested in being with friends, and will be old enough to spend time away from you. If you are like most parents, you will miss him when he no longer has an interest in hanging out with you. Enjoy it while you can! Nothing else that makes demands on your time is worth as much as is time with your son. He is growing up in a very confused generation. The best thing you can give him is lots of your time and guidance from an early age, and for as long as he will take it from you.

Even if you do not intend to homeschool, you would do well to get involved with homeschooling families in your area. They usually have many children—and well-behaved ones, at that. The wives are stay-at-home moms, who can encourage your wife, and your son will have a social group that will not quickly corrupt him. You and your wife might wish to get and read a book by Mary Pride, called "The Way Home." It will revolutionize your lives.

These are a few of my thoughts. You might also want to listen to my lecture (at the "Topical Lectures" link of my website), entitled, "A Vision for Children." I gave that talk to a homeschooling group in Salem, Oregon, when my kids were still young. Feel free to let me know if there is any other way I can be of help to you.

In Jesus,

Steve Gregg

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:38 pm

I'll preface my comments here by saying that I have worked in public schools for about nine years (about three @ elementary level), and in center-based child-care for about five years. I love being part of the public school community, though I also have had some experience in private school settings.

The fundamental tension for a parent here is between concern for the creche and concern for the world. On one hand, a sensitive parent wants to provide an environment that nurtures their child's development in a healthy way - the creche. On the other hand, a sensitive parent knows that their child will need to be able to engage a broader environment that will not be so nurturing or healthy - the world. The challenge for the parent is to strike a balance between the two for their child, so that the child can draw upon the strengths of the one, and know how to use those strengths in the context of the other.

I would not recommend simply enrolling a child in child-care and/or public or private school. Neither would I recommend keeping a child in an exclusively domestic setting. Placing a child in either setting for too great a balance of time could be, well, imbalanced. (Of course, some children will have unusual needs, due to their individual characteristics. But generally speaking, a measured balance in environments is desirable.)

At Ian's age, it should not be difficult to find a pre-school program that is flexible about limited enrollment. By communicating with the teacher, Ian's parents should be able to identify times that might be especially desirable for Ian to be involved. Given the parental description of the situation, Ian might benefit from attending two or three mornings a week, for about two hours. The period of time from about 9-11AM is likely to involve structured academic and social activities. Eventually - probably during the elementary years - it is likely that Ian's schedule for attendance should expand to five days a week, so that he will acquire a conventional rhythm for societal work ethic.

When Ian is eligible for public school attendance, Ian's parents can explore the options available to him for selective enrollment. If there are subjects that Ian's parents would prefer to manage themselves, these might be avoided. Furthermore, Ian's immersion in the social environment of the public school can be selectively managed; some periods of unstructured activity (say, lunch & recess - when peer behavior can be worse) might be avoided, and the total duration of involvement may be limited to a few hours a day.

At all ages, it is desirable for Ian's parents to be directly involved with the child-care or public school environment. At younger ages, it is advantageous that Ian's mother is not employed outside the home, so that she is relatively available to volunteer in Ian's classroom. She should not be so present as to be smothering or invasive, of course, but through regular participation in Ian's classroom, she can help gauge the environment and get a feel for how to manage Ian's involvement. As Ian gets older, it may be appropriate for Ian's father to begin to take over this role (for social reasons, due to Ian's gender). At this point, Ian's mother may take some employment outside the home so that Ian's father can attenuate his workload and become more available.

Of course, the further benefit to Ian's parents being involved in the classroom is that they not only have the opportunity to monitor his public environment - they have the opportunity to impact it. When Ian's parents build relationships with Ian's peers, they contribute to the general environment, and they model for Ian how to interact with the world.

This is an ideal for Christian living - to be in the world, though not of it - and such is a dynamic that should be incorporated into a child's development. Hopefully, as an adult they will then be well-equipped with conventional academic and social literacies appropriate to engaging the common world, and hopefully they will have the experience to know how to do so in a way that is healthy for themselves and fruitful in the world they engage.
Last edited by kaufmannphillips on Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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Homersteve
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by Homersteve » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:00 am

Hi, it's me, the one who originally email Steve with the question about my son Ian. I decided to check out the forums to see any topics on being a Father and ran into this post. It put a smile on my face to see Steve posted this.

Anyway, I appreciate the replies, but one of the things that makes this hard for me is I didn't have a Father growing up. My "Dad" left my mom before I was a year old. My mother worked double shifts at a restaurant and I was raise by whoever was at home. My sister is 2 yrs older than me so she watched me. Also, my cousin, she is female, watched me as well - she's 3 or 4 yrs older. I did have a step dad for about a year or two before the age of 5, but I don't remember much except he was rough with us. He used to hit us with switches (branches from bushes) on our backs when we disobeyed. Also, he used to grow his nails really long and tickle us, but it tore into our skin sometimes. I know it sounds really awful, and it was, but I don't think it effects me today. My father is still alive but I'm distant from him. He a retired cop and a pretty cold person. He's been married 3 times, still married to his 3rd wife. My mom was the first wife. My mother and I are distant as well, in fact I don't talk much to my family. We're separated by about 3,000 miles. My sister has been calling me lately which is out of the ordinary and it's nice. She's become a Christian recently or so and talks to me about that. I grew up around drugs and homosexuality in my family, among other things. I became a Christian when I was 8, I'm 38 now, but was very self-righteous and mouthy to my sister. It's a wonder she became a Christian and I'm happy for it.

Well, I could go on and on and it may not be applicable to the point other than saying I'm lost on this parenting thing. I was married for 15yrs before we had Ian and I was really resistant to having kids. My wife begged me for a child and I finally felt like I was depriving her of being a mother and that all my reasons were not Godly reasons for not having kids but perhaps selfish (I felt guilty). I bought several books on disciplining and tried to implement them, but was not really consistent. Now I mainly spank. Most of the books were against spanking, in fact one said there's only one thing worse than spanking and that's yelling. Well, I failed on both counts. My son's now 3 and he's difficult. Well, probably difficult because I don't know what I'm doing. I suppose it's normal - at least some say that to me - but when he doesn't get his way he hits us, throws things at us, stomps on the ground, slams his fist on the table, and when I spank him or give him a time out he says sorry. Problem is a minute later it's all over again. We cater to him too much. My wife wanted a child so bad and I don't know what I'm doing that we put him first.

Well, what's this got to do with preschool, not much except I'm looking for guidance and since I don't have a Dad to ask I asked Steve Gregg who I look to as a mentor. I thought I'd give a little more info about my situation and get more involved with the forums. Also, please pray for me because I deal with depression. I have an attitude that is not a good Christian attitude. I'm cynical, bitter, my mother called me hateful when I was younger and I feel that at times it's still true. I'm pretty much all around miserable. Plus, I'm very introverted which my wife hates; she's very extroverted. It's hard for me to make friends. I don't fit in with guys I work with because social events are usually sports and drinking, which I don't do either. Also, I haven't met any Christians I click with because when they find out my views on Israel or Eschatology they back away, plus I'm not all smiles with my head in the clouds like some of the ones I've met. I know the problem's me and I can't expect the world to change so I need help to change and I ask for your prayers. I brought some of these issues up to a pastor about myself and he just rebuked me so if you feel like rebuking me fine, but I ask please go easy.

Well thanks for listening and thanks Steve for having the forums.

Homersteve
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by Homersteve » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:53 pm

Today, I was waiting near a daycare center in my car for lunch. I watched as the children all played together. I thought about my 3yr old son at home with his mom. It's winter time now and I know my wife gets a little depressed during winter and doesn't get outside much. During the summer she loves being outside tending to her garden. During winter though she stays in mostly and therefore my son stays in mostly. When watching these daycare kids play together I wondered if it would be better for my kid to be with them. He would get more excersise and some structure. While he's at home it's really "anything goes". He plays with his cars and trains most of the day and watches children's TV. My wife and I are not really "normal" parents. Like I think I've said before, I came from a 1 parent backround and my wife had multiple families being she was an orphan and never adopted.

When I come home from work the house atmosphere is depressing. My wife and son are watching TV. We don't have many friends, well she does, except her friends don't have children. Tonight I asked her if she did andything like took my son outside to play. She did, but got very mad at me for asking because I do nag her sometimes about this.

When I look back at when I was 3 I can't remember anything so I guess it doesn't matter whether I played with other kids or not. My mother did have me in daycare and I was a pain to the daycare workers. I am sort of an odd ball as an adult though. I'm introverted and sort of anti-social so daycare didn't help that. But really, I became more that way in the last 10 years or so. I used to joke around a lot more when I was younger (early twenties). I've gotten more depressed over the last 10 years or so. At work most people talk around then time clock about nothing and I don't engage much. I really don't like getting into superficial conversation. I used to talk about religion but not so much now because I'm tired of the conflict that sometime ensues.

Anyway, nobody can really tell me but I wonder if my son is going to be okay not getting out of the house much or should I put him in daycare so he'll be with other kids and do things like draw and color and play games. He does some of this with his mom and I but it's not as consistent as daycare. I have a friend who works at home and sends his kid to daycare and his conscience doesn't bother him at all about his kid being in daycare and his kid seems alright (his kid is 2).
My kid is way more high strung than his. Though I know they're not the same. Anyway, I worry about my kid's well being. I hope I'm just overreacting.

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Suzana
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by Suzana » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 pm

Hi Homersteve,

Are there any mothers’ groups or playgroups available where you are? If that is an option, perhaps it might be good to encourage your wife to consider joining, while you are deciding about preschool.
From memory, I think we had regular meetings (?weekly/?fortnightly) in a community centre & organized outings at times. The kids would have a chance to play together & mums to interact with each other as well.
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

Homersteve
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by Homersteve » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:52 pm

My wife started going to a weekly morning meeting with moms every Wednesday. She's pretty discouraged and wants to stop going though. She says that most of the women ignore her (she feels it's because she's Filipino and this is a mostly Caucasian area in Spokane, Wa) and it reminds her of the spouses group in the military. This is because she says they act very materialistic and are very gossipy. I told her to hang in there, but I don't know how much longer she will. It is a shame that this church and some others we've visited don't seem much different than what the world has to offer.

I started to read a book Steve suggested, "The Way Home". It is a good book and, sad to say, I relate to what the chap. says about children and how this society is in relation to them. I need to change my thinking when it comes to my child. I think too much like the culture.

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selah
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by selah » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:26 pm

Homersteve, I'm glad you came to the forum. :)

I have some strong feelings about children. I have always felt a strong sense of mothering. At the young age of ten, I believe the Lord "called" me to this. I'm 55 now and have raised three wonderful children, in a broken home, with many of the tragedies you described from your own childhood. And like you, I was raised in a troubled home. My husband I and divorced when my youngest son was four and I raised my children single while attending college around their school schedules. As much as possible, I was an at-home mom because when they were home, so was I. My part-time work was at home too. Eventually, I earned a Master's of Education in Counseling (a completely worthless degree to the kingdom of God, if you ask me) and served as a substitute teacher for a season of time. I was very disheartened to see the children socialized as they were, and even more disheartened to (Edited on Jan. 22, 2009: reinforce, or sustain) it, by being a substitute teacher. The actual learning time was only a fraction of the time spent in lines, in boxes (sitting still at their desk) while the teacher used Pavlovian-like controls. (For example, she/he would tap a stick twice and it meant something to which the children "should" respond favorably.) and on the playground dealing with the personalities nearby. This leads me to mention another phenomena which I abhor: the pecking order which is virtually impossible for children to avoid. The child is either the victim to someone, the bully to another or the observer of this to others. I think public school, even private pre-schools are for the most part, ill advised.

Now I will describe an experience I had that shapes part of my point of view. When my son was four, I had no choice (I thought) but to either go to work or school (after the divorce). I chose school. I also chose a Christian pre-school for my son. Trusting as I was, I signed a form that allowed him to go on field trips. The school explained to me that the kids would always be within our town, but doing different fun outings. One day I picked him up and he was mesmerized by the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" movie. It was all he could talk about. When I inquired as to the reason for his knowing who they were, I was told that the pre-school took him and his classmates to the local theatre to learn how movies were shown. The TMNT movie of the time was showing. That is all it took. From that time forward, that is "all" he watched at his dad's house (every other weekend). His dad and step-mom made sure he owned every movie like it. I pleaded with his dad to curb his TV/movie time. I sought his dad to spend TIME with him fishing, walking in the woods, climbing trees, reading books to him, coaching him in baseball, etc. building stuff out of wood.....

After about half a year, I realized I was in for a battle. This brings tears to my eyes even now. I really do believe shows like TMNT are NOT good for little ones. When I finally gave in and watched the first movie, the first word the "hero" turtle uttered was a cuss word, muttered under his breath. It didn't take me to be a rocket scientist to realize that my culture was preparing my son to say those words, and to see his hero in the gutter and to think "depressed," "underground," and "on the streets" thoughts. I realized that it is very easy to lose parental control (and that is NOT okay) when you enroll your children---even in "Christian" pre-school.

Of course, you and your wife probably already keep TV from becoming a dominant factor for your son and you of course, will remain married. I'm just using a real life story from my life to show you what I believe set the foundation (or at least it was a stone in the foundation) for some teenage and young adult "depression," "underground," "on the streets" experiences.

My strong feeling is that parents must be with their young children in social settings (not for an hour as a volunteer parent, although that is better than nothing) because once someone influences a child along a given bent, then the influence is done. You can never erase the influence. Further, don't be mislead into believing you are acting out-of-balance by keeping your son out of pre-school. Your watchful care is age appropriate and I believe you and your wife honor God's values by raising him yourselves---as opposed to letting pre-school and public school have some time with his mind and heart.

Little boys around the age of three or four, are developmentally ready to build a special bond with their dad. Homersteve, your playfulness with Ian and attention toward him is a lifetime treasure for both of you, and I believe you can extend that treasure to eternity, if you will.

Because you described your son's behavior, may I suggest that you consider redirecting his energy to something requiring his self-discipline? When mine were little, I would sit as their mom and watch them take lessons from another adult. I was amazed to see them gain control over themselves when they demonstrated their competency in a given area and were affirmed and appreciated by their parent. The options for classes are almost endless: roller skating, art, tumbling, fishing, gardening, swimming, music lessons, rock collecting, etc. If I were to raise a child again, I would take the class with them! We enjoyed our weekly trip to the library too. In our walks, we noticed what side of the tree the moss grew on and looked under rocks to see what critters we could learn about. My children and I even had a favorite archeology "dig" where we chiseled away stone and looked for fossils. Life was so much fun! I hope this gives you and your wife some ideas. :D

I believe with all of my heart that Steve Gregg's answer to you was perfect. I'll end this post by saying that I have been around home schooled children off and on for 25 years, as well as my work in public schools. By far, the most well adjusted children and young adults I know are or were home-schooled. You are wise to listen to Steve Gregg.

Homersteve, I am impressed with your openess and willingness to ask questions and explore parenting choices. I will do as you asked and pray for you, your wife and your son. It will be my joy. 8-)
Love in Jesus,
Selah*
Last edited by selah on Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23

lee
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by lee » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:29 pm

Here's a question I think might be worth considering. Should a person be part of the public education system at all in terms of employment? Does teaching in the system perpetuate the system? Also, for those weary of public education, what if the parents were teachers or worked at the school and actually had 4 whole months of time completely off to spend with their own children during the rest of the year, besides nights and weekends? Of course their children would be part of the system, but then again, most of the time is still spent with their parents. What about this, should parents that teach in public school send their children elsewhere for education, or should the parents leave teaching in the public schools? It also makes me wonder that if God has His elect, then it doesn't matter where you raise your children, because God will draw them regardless of where they are. On the other hand, a person who believes in free will, it seems, would do best to isolate their children from the rest of the world. Those last two sentences were definitely tangents. Sorry. What do you guys think about this?

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:07 am

lee wrote:
Should a person be part of the public education system at all in terms of employment? Does teaching in the system perpetuate the system?
Not working in the system won't make it go away. But it will deprive children in the system of the light one could provide therein.
lee wrote:
On the other hand, a person who believes in free will, it seems, would do best to isolate their children from the rest of the world.
Is it the children's ultimate purpose to live in isolation from the world, or to live in it?
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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Homersteve
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Re: Preschool or not?

Post by Homersteve » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:24 am

Well, my son turned four and I'm getting a little nervous about kindergarten though it's a little while off. I don't want to put him in pre-school. I don't even want to put him in kindergarten, much less public school. A friend of mine told me about a program called A BEKA and I need to look more into it. Another friend of mine son is in kindergarten and gets bullied on the bus ride to and from school.

This is a bit overwhelming to me. I always remind myself Jesus said to be anxious for nothing however, I don't want that to be an excuse for laziness. Please pray for me and I'll keep keeping on.

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