Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
One factor in choosing to marry a given individual is, of course, feelings of exclusive love for that person. However, something that is at least equally important in predicting future happiness in marriage is the question of "compatibility." The ads on the radio for "E-Harmony.com" are always emphasizing this fact. While I have never seen the criteria they use for determining compatibility, I made my own list for evaluation, several years ago, when it became clear that my wife was not returning (i.e., when she remarried). I realized that there were many areas she and I had not explored prior to marriage, which might have given us pause during courtship, before moving forward to marriage. I thought I might post this for the benefit of single people evaluating the wisdom of marriage to any particular potential spouse.
The list covers almost every area of potential friction caused by incompatibility. Some things are of very little consequence, while others may be deal-breakers. The main thing is to consider as many of these things as possible, realistically, before deciding to marry, since, in a lifetime of marriage, the emotional love felt during courtship can wear pretty thin where there are significant areas of incompatibility and too little grace in the relationship (where marriage has already taken place, and there are significant areas of incompatibility, what is needed is much grace).
So as not to give the wrong impression, the following are simply categories for consideration. I would not expect that a couple must be just alike in all the categories. The idea is to be able to assess what degree of difference there may be between two parties, before they decide to marry, and to evaluate how important (how negotiable) each difference may be with each of the parties.
For example, on the category, "Sleep patterns (“morning person” or “night person”?)," a couple may find that one is an early-riser and the other a night-owl. This could lead to serious conflicts in marriage—e.g., if one wants morning devotions (or early walks, or early breakfast) to be an important part of their daily routine together and the other prefers to sleep till noon. On the other hand, this difference in sleeping preferences may be very negotiable in the minds of both parties, and may present no serious difficulty whatsoever. A couple would do well to assess these things as objectively as possible before becoming betrothed.
A question like, "Sleep with the windows open or windows shut," may seem a very petty thing, and a difference on the matter may be entirely negotiable for both parties or either party (it only requires one party's flexibility to overcome a difference like this). Yet, I have known more than one case of unmarried roommates who found that they could not sleep in the same room because of such a minor difference. It is a good thing, in those cases, that the roommates were not married couples.
Some categories, like "sexual preferences" will, hopefully, be impossible for young, unmarried people to answer. However, those who have been previously married, or in physical relationships, may know of areas of incompatibility in this area that they would not find tolerable in a future marriage.
This list of categories calls for a high level of objectivity in their assessment. One should remember that present feelings of infatuation will tend to make one think, "Well, we are not very much alike on this point, but I love him/her so much that I am sure I will find no difficulty being flexible." I would simply remind those thinking this way that every couple felt a similar "in-loveness" at the time of their courtship, but in about 50% of marriages, areas of perceived incompatibility have caused one spouse or the other to decide that they have been flexible long enough, and to give up on the relationship.
Since there can be no greater spiritual failure than to break one's marriage vows, and since many find that keeping those vows becomes very excruciating after years of marriage, because of areas of perceived incompatibility, one would do well to make as objective as possible an assessment of these factors as early-on as possible in any relationship that looks like it has marriage potential.
Remember, too, that opposites often attract. However, the areas of difference that attract early-on, may become the occasions of irritation in the course of fifty years of marriage. The shy introvert might find the "life of the party" to be intriguing, but, after ten years, may tire of their spouse's incessant domination of every conversation.
Even where a married couple decides that they are very "incompatible" in many areas, they are not free to divorce. Therefore, remaining faithful to God and to one's vows can be very difficult, where wisdom has not guided the decision about whom one is to marry. I believe that the considerations suggested in the following list may prevent someone from making a very painful mistake.
The list can be used by individuals considering a partner, or by those in a position to counsel unmarried couples (e.g. their parents, pastors, etc.). I suggest taking the list very slowly, and giving individual consideration to each item.
...................................
Compatibility Considerations
This is a list of categories that would seem wise to explore while getting to know any prospective mate. Differences along these lines would need to be evaluated to determine whether they would be inconsequential, whether they would simply create irritations, or whether they would doom a relationship.
The idea is to determine the level of compatibility existing between potential partners, as a predictor of the likelihood of their marital happiness together. After discussion of each issue, rate compatibility in each category on a scale of -3 to +3, as follows:
-3 =intolerable; deal-breaker
-2 = cause for serious concern
-1 = an irritant, but not serious
0 = not an issue; doesn’t even register as relevant
+1 = a similarity, but not a very important similarity
+2 = a significant similarity; very encouraging
+3 = a perfect match
On separate sheets, keep notes explaining the reasons for the high or low rating of each category.
1. Theology of marriage
____Understanding of the purpose of marriage
____Expectations of marriage
____Husband’s and wife’s roles
____Understanding of unique challenges faced by the opposite sex
____Child rearing philosophy
____Jealousy threshold
____Relation to “friends” of the opposite sex
____Relation to grown children (from previous relationships) and other relatives
____Relation to former spouses & “significant others”
____Theology and attitude concerning divorce
2. Character & Christian Maturity
____Admirable or embarrassing to be with?
____Guiding principles and values of life
____Character strengths
____Character weaknesses
____Consistency & sensitivity of conscience
____Willingness to suffer for principle
____Self-denial and willingness to yield
____Servant attitude
____Integrity/loyalty/faithfulness
____Considerateness and compassion
____Humility & openness to correction
____Generosity
____A forgiving disposition
____Moodiness
____Anger/patience
____Violent tendencies?
____Fearfulness/courage
____Vanity & self-absorption
3. Lifestyle preferences
____Trusting God (money? birth control? health?)
____Preferred standard of living
____Preference for rural, urban or suburban setting
____Preference for indoor or outdoor activity
____Desire for Privacy
____Emphasis on food and meals
____Degree of health-consciousness
____Take supplements?
____Exercise regularly?
____Sleep patterns (“morning” or “night person”?)
____Tidy or disorganized
____Like or dislike of travel
____Use of leisure
____Attachment to Pets
____Social life
____Church involvement and religious activity
4. Finances
____Attitude toward wealth and material things
____Spending priorities
____Thriftiness/Giving/Savings priorities
____Attitude toward buying on credit
____Does he/she have existing debt?
____Proclivity to worry about finances
5. Personal Tastes
____Taste in home furnishings
____Taste in family cars
____Taste in music styles
____Taste in reading
____Taste in entertainment
____Taste in humor
____Taste in friends
____Taste in foods
____Taste in clothes, hairstyles, facial hair
____Taste regarding cosmetics, jewelry and perfumes
6. Communication issues
____Conversation styles
____honesty & transparency
____analytical or emotive
____vocabulary (too limited or too erudite?)
____clarity of expression (or lack thereof)
____dialogue or filibuster style
____habit of interrupting
____desire to understand & empathize
____use of sarcasm
____volume and tone of voice
____handling differences of opinion
____Nonverbal communication
____Uncommunicative when irritated?
____His/her reaction to your silence
____Dominant love languages: (e.g., words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, receiving gifts, physical touch)
____Conflict resolution: willingness & style
7. Health issues
____Chronic or recurring conditions
____Hormonal issues
____Trauma issues
____Dependence on medications
____Dependence on health care system
____Dependence on therapists, support groups (e.g., twelve-steps), counseling, etc.
____Attitude toward medical interventions
____Philosophy concerning health insurance
8. Doctrinal commitments
____Level of biblical literacy
____Level of theological savvy
____His/her “non-negotiables” list
____Ability to distinguish between “weightier” and “lesser “matters
____Love of truth
____Reverence for Scripture
____Doctrinal humility & a teachable spirit
9. Devotional life
____Personal testimony of conversion
____Enjoyment and practice of communion with God
____Thirst for God
____Faith in God
____Prayer life
____Fear of God
____Love for God
____Delight in the Lord
10. Physical attraction, affection & sex
____Long-term mutual attraction (Do I want to look at this person for the rest of my life?)
____Attitudes concerning sex —positive or negative
____Repercussions of previous sexual experiences
____Enjoyment of physical touch
____Preferred frequency of sex in marriage
____Passion and libido levels
____Sexual styles and preferences
____Birth control convictions and preferences
11. Political leanings
____Conservative or liberal
____Active or disinterested
____Attitude toward freedom and human rights
____Attitude toward government
____Attitude toward patriotism
12. Personal vision and future goals
____Clear or undefined?
____Spiritual or worldly ambitions?
____Driven or resigned to God’s plans?
____Personal way of defining “success” or “accomplishment”
13. Background
____Cultural/ethnic background
____Birth-home environment
____Christian parents?
____Raised with one parent, two, or none?
____Siblings, birth order
____Raised with discipline or pampered and spoiled?
____Traumatic experiences in youth?
____Converted at what age?
____What kind of role models were parents?
____His/her early attitudes about God and morality
____Early spiritual experiences (including demonic)
____Education
____Premarital sexual experiences (if any)
____Previous marriages?
____Biblically free to remarry?
____Baggage from previous relationships?
14. Personality
____extrovert or introvert
____bombastic or self-effacing
____intellectual or shallow
____pensive or chatty
____engaging or boring
____leader or follower
____loner or people-person
____obsessive or easygoing
____humorous or serious
____mannerisms
____Irritating or pleasant laugh
____quirky stuff?
15. Habits and hobbies
____substance abuse, past or present
____driving style
____stimulation-boredom threshold (addiction to entertainment?)
____ways of managing boredom
____adventurous/dangerous stuff (sky-diving, bungee-jumping, rock-climbing, etc.)
____special interests
16. Skills, talents and aptitudes
____a good cook?
____an interior decorator?
____good at sports?
____good at household repairs?
____good at automotive repairs?
____a chess player
____a musician?
____a singer?
____an artist?
____good at his/her trade?
____good at math?
____good bookkeeper?
____good money manager?
____good shopper
____memory for details
____remembers names and faces?
____good writer?
____public speaker?
____good debater?
____good problem solver?
____good counselor?
____good nurturer?
____good caregiver?
____good lover?
____good judge of character?
____intuitive?
____good sense of style?
The list covers almost every area of potential friction caused by incompatibility. Some things are of very little consequence, while others may be deal-breakers. The main thing is to consider as many of these things as possible, realistically, before deciding to marry, since, in a lifetime of marriage, the emotional love felt during courtship can wear pretty thin where there are significant areas of incompatibility and too little grace in the relationship (where marriage has already taken place, and there are significant areas of incompatibility, what is needed is much grace).
So as not to give the wrong impression, the following are simply categories for consideration. I would not expect that a couple must be just alike in all the categories. The idea is to be able to assess what degree of difference there may be between two parties, before they decide to marry, and to evaluate how important (how negotiable) each difference may be with each of the parties.
For example, on the category, "Sleep patterns (“morning person” or “night person”?)," a couple may find that one is an early-riser and the other a night-owl. This could lead to serious conflicts in marriage—e.g., if one wants morning devotions (or early walks, or early breakfast) to be an important part of their daily routine together and the other prefers to sleep till noon. On the other hand, this difference in sleeping preferences may be very negotiable in the minds of both parties, and may present no serious difficulty whatsoever. A couple would do well to assess these things as objectively as possible before becoming betrothed.
A question like, "Sleep with the windows open or windows shut," may seem a very petty thing, and a difference on the matter may be entirely negotiable for both parties or either party (it only requires one party's flexibility to overcome a difference like this). Yet, I have known more than one case of unmarried roommates who found that they could not sleep in the same room because of such a minor difference. It is a good thing, in those cases, that the roommates were not married couples.
Some categories, like "sexual preferences" will, hopefully, be impossible for young, unmarried people to answer. However, those who have been previously married, or in physical relationships, may know of areas of incompatibility in this area that they would not find tolerable in a future marriage.
This list of categories calls for a high level of objectivity in their assessment. One should remember that present feelings of infatuation will tend to make one think, "Well, we are not very much alike on this point, but I love him/her so much that I am sure I will find no difficulty being flexible." I would simply remind those thinking this way that every couple felt a similar "in-loveness" at the time of their courtship, but in about 50% of marriages, areas of perceived incompatibility have caused one spouse or the other to decide that they have been flexible long enough, and to give up on the relationship.
Since there can be no greater spiritual failure than to break one's marriage vows, and since many find that keeping those vows becomes very excruciating after years of marriage, because of areas of perceived incompatibility, one would do well to make as objective as possible an assessment of these factors as early-on as possible in any relationship that looks like it has marriage potential.
Remember, too, that opposites often attract. However, the areas of difference that attract early-on, may become the occasions of irritation in the course of fifty years of marriage. The shy introvert might find the "life of the party" to be intriguing, but, after ten years, may tire of their spouse's incessant domination of every conversation.
Even where a married couple decides that they are very "incompatible" in many areas, they are not free to divorce. Therefore, remaining faithful to God and to one's vows can be very difficult, where wisdom has not guided the decision about whom one is to marry. I believe that the considerations suggested in the following list may prevent someone from making a very painful mistake.
The list can be used by individuals considering a partner, or by those in a position to counsel unmarried couples (e.g. their parents, pastors, etc.). I suggest taking the list very slowly, and giving individual consideration to each item.
...................................
Compatibility Considerations
This is a list of categories that would seem wise to explore while getting to know any prospective mate. Differences along these lines would need to be evaluated to determine whether they would be inconsequential, whether they would simply create irritations, or whether they would doom a relationship.
The idea is to determine the level of compatibility existing between potential partners, as a predictor of the likelihood of their marital happiness together. After discussion of each issue, rate compatibility in each category on a scale of -3 to +3, as follows:
-3 =intolerable; deal-breaker
-2 = cause for serious concern
-1 = an irritant, but not serious
0 = not an issue; doesn’t even register as relevant
+1 = a similarity, but not a very important similarity
+2 = a significant similarity; very encouraging
+3 = a perfect match
On separate sheets, keep notes explaining the reasons for the high or low rating of each category.
1. Theology of marriage
____Understanding of the purpose of marriage
____Expectations of marriage
____Husband’s and wife’s roles
____Understanding of unique challenges faced by the opposite sex
____Child rearing philosophy
____Jealousy threshold
____Relation to “friends” of the opposite sex
____Relation to grown children (from previous relationships) and other relatives
____Relation to former spouses & “significant others”
____Theology and attitude concerning divorce
2. Character & Christian Maturity
____Admirable or embarrassing to be with?
____Guiding principles and values of life
____Character strengths
____Character weaknesses
____Consistency & sensitivity of conscience
____Willingness to suffer for principle
____Self-denial and willingness to yield
____Servant attitude
____Integrity/loyalty/faithfulness
____Considerateness and compassion
____Humility & openness to correction
____Generosity
____A forgiving disposition
____Moodiness
____Anger/patience
____Violent tendencies?
____Fearfulness/courage
____Vanity & self-absorption
3. Lifestyle preferences
____Trusting God (money? birth control? health?)
____Preferred standard of living
____Preference for rural, urban or suburban setting
____Preference for indoor or outdoor activity
____Desire for Privacy
____Emphasis on food and meals
____Degree of health-consciousness
____Take supplements?
____Exercise regularly?
____Sleep patterns (“morning” or “night person”?)
____Tidy or disorganized
____Like or dislike of travel
____Use of leisure
____Attachment to Pets
____Social life
____Church involvement and religious activity
4. Finances
____Attitude toward wealth and material things
____Spending priorities
____Thriftiness/Giving/Savings priorities
____Attitude toward buying on credit
____Does he/she have existing debt?
____Proclivity to worry about finances
5. Personal Tastes
____Taste in home furnishings
____Taste in family cars
____Taste in music styles
____Taste in reading
____Taste in entertainment
____Taste in humor
____Taste in friends
____Taste in foods
____Taste in clothes, hairstyles, facial hair
____Taste regarding cosmetics, jewelry and perfumes
6. Communication issues
____Conversation styles
____honesty & transparency
____analytical or emotive
____vocabulary (too limited or too erudite?)
____clarity of expression (or lack thereof)
____dialogue or filibuster style
____habit of interrupting
____desire to understand & empathize
____use of sarcasm
____volume and tone of voice
____handling differences of opinion
____Nonverbal communication
____Uncommunicative when irritated?
____His/her reaction to your silence
____Dominant love languages: (e.g., words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, receiving gifts, physical touch)
____Conflict resolution: willingness & style
7. Health issues
____Chronic or recurring conditions
____Hormonal issues
____Trauma issues
____Dependence on medications
____Dependence on health care system
____Dependence on therapists, support groups (e.g., twelve-steps), counseling, etc.
____Attitude toward medical interventions
____Philosophy concerning health insurance
8. Doctrinal commitments
____Level of biblical literacy
____Level of theological savvy
____His/her “non-negotiables” list
____Ability to distinguish between “weightier” and “lesser “matters
____Love of truth
____Reverence for Scripture
____Doctrinal humility & a teachable spirit
9. Devotional life
____Personal testimony of conversion
____Enjoyment and practice of communion with God
____Thirst for God
____Faith in God
____Prayer life
____Fear of God
____Love for God
____Delight in the Lord
10. Physical attraction, affection & sex
____Long-term mutual attraction (Do I want to look at this person for the rest of my life?)
____Attitudes concerning sex —positive or negative
____Repercussions of previous sexual experiences
____Enjoyment of physical touch
____Preferred frequency of sex in marriage
____Passion and libido levels
____Sexual styles and preferences
____Birth control convictions and preferences
11. Political leanings
____Conservative or liberal
____Active or disinterested
____Attitude toward freedom and human rights
____Attitude toward government
____Attitude toward patriotism
12. Personal vision and future goals
____Clear or undefined?
____Spiritual or worldly ambitions?
____Driven or resigned to God’s plans?
____Personal way of defining “success” or “accomplishment”
13. Background
____Cultural/ethnic background
____Birth-home environment
____Christian parents?
____Raised with one parent, two, or none?
____Siblings, birth order
____Raised with discipline or pampered and spoiled?
____Traumatic experiences in youth?
____Converted at what age?
____What kind of role models were parents?
____His/her early attitudes about God and morality
____Early spiritual experiences (including demonic)
____Education
____Premarital sexual experiences (if any)
____Previous marriages?
____Biblically free to remarry?
____Baggage from previous relationships?
14. Personality
____extrovert or introvert
____bombastic or self-effacing
____intellectual or shallow
____pensive or chatty
____engaging or boring
____leader or follower
____loner or people-person
____obsessive or easygoing
____humorous or serious
____mannerisms
____Irritating or pleasant laugh
____quirky stuff?
15. Habits and hobbies
____substance abuse, past or present
____driving style
____stimulation-boredom threshold (addiction to entertainment?)
____ways of managing boredom
____adventurous/dangerous stuff (sky-diving, bungee-jumping, rock-climbing, etc.)
____special interests
16. Skills, talents and aptitudes
____a good cook?
____an interior decorator?
____good at sports?
____good at household repairs?
____good at automotive repairs?
____a chess player
____a musician?
____a singer?
____an artist?
____good at his/her trade?
____good at math?
____good bookkeeper?
____good money manager?
____good shopper
____memory for details
____remembers names and faces?
____good writer?
____public speaker?
____good debater?
____good problem solver?
____good counselor?
____good nurturer?
____good caregiver?
____good lover?
____good judge of character?
____intuitive?
____good sense of style?
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Steve (I know how busy you are but),
Excellent article & list (and bookmarked for reference)!
Right now I'm not exactly "looking" for a spouse. But I'm more or less convinced that celibacy won't be a permanent thing for me (probably not my life-long calling). Due to backsliding for about 18 years, and, though I got faith back in 1999; I'm still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character. Or, speaking in Pauline terms, I'm in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
I think I've mentioned before that I go along with what you teach about marriage, celibacy, "dating" (Social Norms Between The Sexes) and so on. I like the concept of betrothal: Something about it just seems right. If I ever get married (never have been), I'll probably follow the betrothal "method" in some fashion or variation.
I have friends who have, have considered, or are getting married since I found your teaching (the Bible's, imo). I've given links to your mp3's and was pretty "evangelistic" about it. Hey, heard the good news? We don't have to do it like the pagans! lol
In any event, lol, I have to say (or am I sad to report?) that too many believers have really odd ideas about "dating and romance" and, well, I find it rather appalling and frustrating. You covered one aspect of it in your lectures in how with popular music songs; that so many of them are about "broken hearts" --- when there wasn't ever any kind of real commitment to begin with (DUH)!?!? That was funny yet sad at the same time (as we Christians buy into it?)
I don't have much else on this for now. I will say that two people, who are considering marriage; if they could get through going over everything on Your List: They're probably fairly compatible already! And on a serious note: I do believe they should.
Good stuff Steve![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Just edited, for different reasons, this edit feature is great! lol
Excellent article & list (and bookmarked for reference)!
Right now I'm not exactly "looking" for a spouse. But I'm more or less convinced that celibacy won't be a permanent thing for me (probably not my life-long calling). Due to backsliding for about 18 years, and, though I got faith back in 1999; I'm still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character. Or, speaking in Pauline terms, I'm in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
I think I've mentioned before that I go along with what you teach about marriage, celibacy, "dating" (Social Norms Between The Sexes) and so on. I like the concept of betrothal: Something about it just seems right. If I ever get married (never have been), I'll probably follow the betrothal "method" in some fashion or variation.
I have friends who have, have considered, or are getting married since I found your teaching (the Bible's, imo). I've given links to your mp3's and was pretty "evangelistic" about it. Hey, heard the good news? We don't have to do it like the pagans! lol
In any event, lol, I have to say (or am I sad to report?) that too many believers have really odd ideas about "dating and romance" and, well, I find it rather appalling and frustrating. You covered one aspect of it in your lectures in how with popular music songs; that so many of them are about "broken hearts" --- when there wasn't ever any kind of real commitment to begin with (DUH)!?!? That was funny yet sad at the same time (as we Christians buy into it?)
I don't have much else on this for now. I will say that two people, who are considering marriage; if they could get through going over everything on Your List: They're probably fairly compatible already! And on a serious note: I do believe they should.
Good stuff Steve
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Just edited, for different reasons, this edit feature is great! lol
Last edited by _Rich on Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:
Reason:
“In Jesus Christ God ordained life for man, but death for himself” -- Karl Barth
Steve, I don't think couples who are thinking of getting marrie are going to check out their compatibility in all or even many of these areas. Perhaps what you are really saying is that couples ought to engage in a lot of conversation before marriage to see whether they agree on basic matters, especially matters that have potential for conflict.
My first wife and I talked a lot about various matters before marriage (when I was 24). We found we both agreed on how children should be disciplined. This was probably one of major importance. Families have been torn apart by children who play one parent against the other. In many respects we were very different, but we both held the view that divorce was not an option. We had a good life together.
Two years after June died in 1997, I met my second wife, Jean. She had a totally different background from mine. She was raised in an urban setting; I was raised on a farm with income scarcely enough to sustain the family. Jean was raised to be an atheist. My mother and siblings were Christians, while my father "just didn't have the faith" as he often said.
There are many other differences between us, and yet there is no kind of conflict which is potentially divorcive. I think virtually any two disciples of Christ who enter marriage with a life-long commitment, can have a happy life together, not entirely devoid of conflict, but generally so, especially if they both look to the Lord at all times in their relationship.
My first wife and I talked a lot about various matters before marriage (when I was 24). We found we both agreed on how children should be disciplined. This was probably one of major importance. Families have been torn apart by children who play one parent against the other. In many respects we were very different, but we both held the view that divorce was not an option. We had a good life together.
Two years after June died in 1997, I met my second wife, Jean. She had a totally different background from mine. She was raised in an urban setting; I was raised on a farm with income scarcely enough to sustain the family. Jean was raised to be an atheist. My mother and siblings were Christians, while my father "just didn't have the faith" as he often said.
There are many other differences between us, and yet there is no kind of conflict which is potentially divorcive. I think virtually any two disciples of Christ who enter marriage with a life-long commitment, can have a happy life together, not entirely devoid of conflict, but generally so, especially if they both look to the Lord at all times in their relationship.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
- _Benjamin Ho
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:16 am
- Location: Singapore
Dear friends,
In the ideal setting, I would imagine that a compatibility list like this should be done before the decision for betrothal/engagement. I looking for practical insights or any experience with regards to my two questions:
1. Would going through a list like this promote emotional/romantic love before betrothal/engagement? Or perhaps wrong expectations by either party?
2. Alternatively, if emotions/romance has not come into play yet, would going through a list like this before betrothal/engagement make the whole process rather business-like?
[By the way, just to clarify: in the "betrothal" model, does courting or dating occur before betrothal? In his email, Steve shares his experience as courting his wife, which I guess must have occurred before the betrothal/engagement.]
In the ideal setting, I would imagine that a compatibility list like this should be done before the decision for betrothal/engagement. I looking for practical insights or any experience with regards to my two questions:
1. Would going through a list like this promote emotional/romantic love before betrothal/engagement? Or perhaps wrong expectations by either party?
2. Alternatively, if emotions/romance has not come into play yet, would going through a list like this before betrothal/engagement make the whole process rather business-like?
[By the way, just to clarify: in the "betrothal" model, does courting or dating occur before betrothal? In his email, Steve shares his experience as courting his wife, which I guess must have occurred before the betrothal/engagement.]
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Grace and peace,
Benjamin Ho
Benjamin Ho
I think this is a great list and I probably will make use of it in future pre-marital counseling situations. I've done pre-marital counseling with 3 couples so far in ministry and it always feels a bit odd seeing as I am single myself, haha. Thankfully, the couples have all said they got a lot out of it anyways.
I think a lot of the stuff will have been discussed or made-known already. The point of the list, I think, is just to 'make sure' that there isn't ignorance regarding such things.
I think a lot of the stuff will have been discussed or made-known already. The point of the list, I think, is just to 'make sure' that there isn't ignorance regarding such things.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hemingway once said: 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for'
I agree with the second part (se7en)
I agree with the second part (se7en)
- _Benjamin Ho
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:16 am
- Location: Singapore
Hi Matt,
I'm in agreement. The list is useful also for pre-marital and marriage counselling.
I'm in agreement. The list is useful also for pre-marital and marriage counselling.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Grace and peace,
Benjamin Ho
Benjamin Ho
Re: Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
Three years, six months, and one day ago I wrote:
"I'm still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character. Or, speaking in Pauline terms, I'm in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
It would have better read (I couldn't get in to edit):
I'm:
1) still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character.
2) in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
1 & 2 are still in effect.
I don't know if 2 will be permanent and have been spending a considerable amount of time and effort "looking" for a potential spouse. Note: a potential spouse.
Paul's Actual Text (in Context)
1 Cor 7 (NASB)
32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,
34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.
(This might be off-topic for this old thread but):
Paul seems to be saying that those who are unmarried (?and/or called to celibacy?) should be fully devoted to pleasing God - as contrasted with the married who have marital considerations for their spouses. These marital considerations, of course, are no less godly than what celibates are called to.
Questions (a new thread could be started if needed).
1) Should celibates (aka, 'single' Christians) consider searching for a spouse as a thing which pleases the Lord?
I would say "yes" if one knows they're not called to permanent celibacy (see Pro 18:22).
2) If one does not know if she or he is called to permanent celibacy, how may they find out?
I don't have an answer for this other than pray for direction and talk with others about it.
Steve says in his lectures, and I agree, that the vast majority of us are not called to lifelong celibacy. I have wondered if I am called to celibacy for almost as long as I've been a believer. (And leaving aside that I had some backslidden years - I still wonder about it now, and have serious doubts I can stay single). I'm willing to. And I wouldn't want to get married merely for 'loneliness' and 'normal sexual desire'. At the same time, Paul wrote:
1 Cor 7 (NASB)
1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
Steve goes over all these points in his lectures. I was just wondering if anyone has something new and/or another POV. In the meantime, I'm taking time to find a (look for a potential) wife as I continue implementing 'good spouse traits' into my character, though I'm not ready to be married yet. That is, not right at this moment. As I search for a potential spouse - all I'm doing is fellowship! - since, like Steve, I don't believe in "dating."
I should say that - re: 'lonliness' - this isn't a 'big' problem for me as I'm involved in a good church these days, with lots of ministries. However, I don't have female companionship (of the sort I would have if I were married).
I also made this post - (and primarily so) - to *bump* the thread: It's Worth Seeing!
I've been sharing it with men and women friends at a "meet other single Christians" site named: ChristianCafe.com
FYI, Steve (if you see this).
Several people have said they really benefited from this thread!
Thanks again, Brother!
Take care, folks,![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
"I'm still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character. Or, speaking in Pauline terms, I'm in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
It would have better read (I couldn't get in to edit):
I'm:
1) still in the position of learning "good spouse traits" (aka, good Christian traits) and getting them into my character.
2) in the status of "the unmarried are concerned about the things of the Lord, how they may please Him (paraphrased)."
1 & 2 are still in effect.
I don't know if 2 will be permanent and have been spending a considerable amount of time and effort "looking" for a potential spouse. Note: a potential spouse.
Paul's Actual Text (in Context)
1 Cor 7 (NASB)
32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,
34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.
(This might be off-topic for this old thread but):
Paul seems to be saying that those who are unmarried (?and/or called to celibacy?) should be fully devoted to pleasing God - as contrasted with the married who have marital considerations for their spouses. These marital considerations, of course, are no less godly than what celibates are called to.
Questions (a new thread could be started if needed).
1) Should celibates (aka, 'single' Christians) consider searching for a spouse as a thing which pleases the Lord?
I would say "yes" if one knows they're not called to permanent celibacy (see Pro 18:22).
2) If one does not know if she or he is called to permanent celibacy, how may they find out?
I don't have an answer for this other than pray for direction and talk with others about it.
Steve says in his lectures, and I agree, that the vast majority of us are not called to lifelong celibacy. I have wondered if I am called to celibacy for almost as long as I've been a believer. (And leaving aside that I had some backslidden years - I still wonder about it now, and have serious doubts I can stay single). I'm willing to. And I wouldn't want to get married merely for 'loneliness' and 'normal sexual desire'. At the same time, Paul wrote:
1 Cor 7 (NASB)
1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
Steve goes over all these points in his lectures. I was just wondering if anyone has something new and/or another POV. In the meantime, I'm taking time to find a (look for a potential) wife as I continue implementing 'good spouse traits' into my character, though I'm not ready to be married yet. That is, not right at this moment. As I search for a potential spouse - all I'm doing is fellowship! - since, like Steve, I don't believe in "dating."
I should say that - re: 'lonliness' - this isn't a 'big' problem for me as I'm involved in a good church these days, with lots of ministries. However, I don't have female companionship (of the sort I would have if I were married).
I also made this post - (and primarily so) - to *bump* the thread: It's Worth Seeing!
I've been sharing it with men and women friends at a "meet other single Christians" site named: ChristianCafe.com
FYI, Steve (if you see this).
Several people have said they really benefited from this thread!
Thanks again, Brother!
Take care, folks,
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Re: Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
Rick, would you explain a little more about your stance, "I don't believe in dating."
Are you saying that you think it wrong to invite a woman to accompany you to a concert of the classics, or to church, or to a restaurant for a meal, or simply for a walk along the river front?
Or is your idea of "dating" something other than sharing with a woman such activities as the above?
If you do think it wrong to invite a woman to to accompany you in any way, how will you become well enough acquainted to propose marriage? Will you just walk up to a woman and say, "Will you marry me?" or "I believe it is the Lord's will that you and I get married"? I don't think any woman would agree to such a proposal from a stranger or from a casual acquaintance.
Are you saying that you think it wrong to invite a woman to accompany you to a concert of the classics, or to church, or to a restaurant for a meal, or simply for a walk along the river front?
Or is your idea of "dating" something other than sharing with a woman such activities as the above?
If you do think it wrong to invite a woman to to accompany you in any way, how will you become well enough acquainted to propose marriage? Will you just walk up to a woman and say, "Will you marry me?" or "I believe it is the Lord's will that you and I get married"? I don't think any woman would agree to such a proposal from a stranger or from a casual acquaintance.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
Hello Don!Paidion wrote:Rick, would you explain a little more about your stance, "I don't believe in dating."
Are you saying that you think it wrong to invite a woman to accompany you to a concert of the classics, or to church, or to a restaurant for a meal, or simply for a walk along the river front?
Or is your idea of "dating" something other than sharing with a woman such activities as the above?
If you do think it wrong to invite a woman to to accompany you in any way, how will you become well enough acquainted to propose marriage? Will you just walk up to a woman and say, "Will you marry me?" or "I believe it is the Lord's will that you and I get married"? I don't think any woman would agree to such a proposal from a stranger or from a casual acquaintance.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
In Steve's lectures: Toward a Radically Christian Counterculture (under Topical Lectures), there used to be 'Social Norms Between the Sexes'. If I'm not mistaken the one or two that dealt with 'dating' were RAD-08 and RAD-09. I think Steve's current lectures are a later set of lectures. If you listen to RCC16_Approaching Marriage you'll understand what I think about "dating" as I essentially agree with what Steve says about it. (I have both the old and new series saved in my computer).
Summarized Overview
"Dating" in our culture is recreational. One 'goes out' with someone to have fun and 'test' them to see if they like them. If two people go out again they may 'go steady' and perhaps, eventually, get engaged. Hearts are given away to the other, hopes are built high.
During this process; at any given time one of the two may 'break up', up to, and including during engagement. They say, "Breaking up is hard to do" and Steve says, "It becomes easier with practice." The "dating culture" is really practice for divorce. Hearts are 'rented' till one person decides they are no longer 'in love'. Hearts are broken.
Breaking peoples' hearts is a sin.
So, I believe in 'fellowship between the sexes' - not "dating." Here the focus is on serving Christ and one another. Getting to know the other person is centered in and around Christ. Since Christians are to do God's will - is our calling - hearts aren't rented. Nor are they given away - to anyone - other than one's spouse.
To answer your questions.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing things with a potential spouse! (concerts, take a walk, etc.). If the solid foundation of Christian fellowship is there, these things would be just fine. The focal point of the relationship, however, wouldn't be on having fun - but on Christian fellowship and service. Bible studies, church, serving food in a soup kitchen, getting together with Christian friends for a 'bonfire prayer & praise', and things like that would be ideal settings to really get to know a Christian of the opposite sex.
In my church - (yes, I'm quite involved in one today, yay)! - there are so many ministry opportunities and happenings where Christian singles can meet. I haven't gotten to know many women there yet but have met a few. One example is in my membership class. There, we (men and women) talk about the things of God, and where we're at in our walk with Christ = fellowship. Also, the ChristianCafe website I mentioned above; two people in my membership class met on that site. As they got to know one another online - discussing their walk in Christ, the scriptures, and the things of God - they decided to meet in person and the Lord made it clear they were "the ones."
Steve explains these things much more in-depth than I have (or could).
Thanks for *bumping* this thread, Don!
I hope you're doing well.
Take care,
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Re: Compatibility Considerations Before Marriage
As Rick mentioned, the kind of "dating" that I have criticized is what I would call "recreational romance." Going someplace with a woman may not qualify as dating (by this particular definition) by its not being "recreational" (that is, it is done in pursuit of a committed relationship, with marriage as its object), or it may not be "romance" (that is, it may be understood by both that this is "just a platonic thing"). What I referred to negatively as "dating" is the common practice of just finding someone to give you the thrill of a romantic encounter, not because your intentions are "honorable," but because it is possible to have a bit of fun on a Friday night at the expense of another person's heart.
My lectures are directed, primarily, at the parents of unmarried children, and to unspoiled teens themselves, to get them to challenge this cultural norm, and to consider that God's ideal is for each person to only have one romantic partner (one person to whom they give their hearts) in a lifetime. It is possible to hold to these ideals in situations where kids have yet to give their hearts to their first partner. The ideals do not apply to every case in an un-ideal world—where there are very sub-ideal realities of divorce and death (resulting in widowhood). In such cases, it would be unreasonable and legalistic to insist that the bereaved party should never remarry, because they have had their quota of one romantic partner already.
Nonetheless, the concept remains true that Christians, at any stage of life and in any relationship circumstance, must take care not to use the hearts of others as playthings for their own amusement.
Many of the suggestions that I made in my lectures presuppose that the individuals adopting the policies are kids at home, in Christian fellowship, etc. People who no longer live with their parents, or who are not in positions to meet many single Christians in their area, may, of course, not be able to implement many of my practical suggestions
My lectures are directed, primarily, at the parents of unmarried children, and to unspoiled teens themselves, to get them to challenge this cultural norm, and to consider that God's ideal is for each person to only have one romantic partner (one person to whom they give their hearts) in a lifetime. It is possible to hold to these ideals in situations where kids have yet to give their hearts to their first partner. The ideals do not apply to every case in an un-ideal world—where there are very sub-ideal realities of divorce and death (resulting in widowhood). In such cases, it would be unreasonable and legalistic to insist that the bereaved party should never remarry, because they have had their quota of one romantic partner already.
Nonetheless, the concept remains true that Christians, at any stage of life and in any relationship circumstance, must take care not to use the hearts of others as playthings for their own amusement.
Many of the suggestions that I made in my lectures presuppose that the individuals adopting the policies are kids at home, in Christian fellowship, etc. People who no longer live with their parents, or who are not in positions to meet many single Christians in their area, may, of course, not be able to implement many of my practical suggestions